B2 re-starting issue

[Lindy]

I hope someone here can help me. My 1988 B2 4x4 manual has been in the shop for a couple of months. The guy has tried everything he can think of and I picked the brain of another guy too. The problem is she starts fine; but if she's turned off or cuts off (because I mess up with the clutch) she won't re-start. She has to sit for awhile...10 or 15 minutes maybe...and then she starts again. Here's the background:

She's my #2 in the rotation. I use her for hauling and bad weather. In fall of 2011 I replaced the battery. By Feb 2012, I had to jump her 3 out of 5 times to start. I thought something was draining the battery, so I took her to the guy. We decided rather than waste time and $$ trying to track down the problem, he'd put a kill switch on her so I could disconnect the battery when I wasn't using her. He also noticed the battery was a little smaller than it should be. Took the battery back, sure enough it was a little smaller than the book says it should be so I got the bigger one.

I went to pick her up and he had her running. He turned her off to show me how easily She would start after the fix...and she didn't start. In hindsight I see this as the beginning. He thought it was a starter problem, so he replaced the starter. For some reason (can't remember why) the alternator was replaced too. I picked her up and took her home.

Drove her very little with no problem...probably because I didn't turn her off for short periods. Noticed the tailgate wasn't closing properly, causing the interior light to stay on...really annoying! So I took her back to him. As I was backing into the garage, she cut off. When I tried to start her again, she wouldn't start. I remembered that once before that, I was backing up at home, she cut off (both times my problem with the pedals) and wouldn't start. That's when we decided there was a problem.

Since then he's put on two more starters (thinking that was the problem) and I think he said he connected something directly to the battery. I also told him that another guy mentioned a possibility was one of the poles (?) in the solenoid might be corroded.

I haven't talked to him for awhile. She's sitting at his place and I guess he works on her when he has time or has a new idea what the problem might be. I'm looking for ideas I can take to him.

Since I'm thinking the kill switch is when everything changed, I wonder if reversing that would fix things. But then it seems I'd be faced with that battery draining problem again.

Everybody wants me to get rid of her. I'm not ready yet. If the engine blows or the transmission falls out...fine. But I'm not going to let her go over some mystery ailment.

Any ideas will be appreciated. I'll take everything to the guy.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks in advance.

ETA...Should add when trying to start after she cuts off, it sounds like the problem is a bad battery...rrrrrRrrrrrRrrrrrR--I think. Truthfully it's been awhile since I've heard it. But the alternator is working fine. Took her to a parts store, they checked the battery and said it was fine.

 

[adsm08]

Do this sitting at home so you don't get yourself stranded. Get a helper and a screw driver too.

Start it up and let it run to get warm, then shut it off make sure it won't re-start. Then take the middle wire off your distributor and stick the screw driver in it. Hold the screw driver about 1/2 and inch from something metal and have your helper crank it over. You should get nice snappy white or blue sparks.

If you get no sparky sparks put the wire back on, leave the key in run and the trans in neutral (sorry, I've done this and forgotten that step, kinda still not sure how I still have my right leg, so I think some emphasis is important) and then stick your screw driver between the two posts of the big relay jigger over by the battery.


Let us know what happens.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Do this sitting at home so you don't get yourself stranded. Get a helper and a screw driver too.

Start it up and let it run to get warm, then shut it off make sure it won't re-start. Then take the middle wire off your distributor and stick the screw driver in the end of the wire. Hold the screw driver about 1/2 and inch from something metal and have your helper crank it over. You should get nice snappy white or blue sparks.

If you get no sparky sparks put the wire back on, leave the key in run and the trans in neutral (sorry, I've done this and forgotten that step, kinda still not sure how I still have my right leg, so I think some emphasis is important) and then stick your screw driver between the two posts of the big relay jigger[solinoid] over by the battery.


Let us know what happens.

Some clarification in red I thought might be needed.

Richard

 

[adsm08]

Some clarification in red I thought might be needed.

Richard

Yeah, it's not really a solenoid. It's more of a relay.

Relays use low current to control high current.

Solenoids use current to do work, usually open or close a passage.

 

[RonD]

Were the battery cables replaced when the starter was?

Battery cables can corrode on the inside, creating higher resistance, when engine is running current is flowing INTO the battery via these cables so they heat up, even more if corroded.
When you try to restart right away the resistance is too high so not enough current, cables cool and there is enough current, it's a long shot but not a 0 shot, lol.
This includes the Neg. cables, it's a circuit, so bad + or - affects it.

Key off Engine off battery voltage should be 12.5v or higher
Engine idling should be 13.6v or higher at the battery, you need at least 1.1v above battery voltage to maintain the charge in a battery.

Below 12.4v with engine off key off means battery is near it's end of life, I would shop for a new one or just be prepared to get a jump on the next cold day.



To track down an "always on" circuit, turn off the key, remove + battery cable and hook up a test light between battery + and the + cable, light will glow if there is current flowing, i.e. something is on........close the door, lol.

Anyway, pull 1 fuse at a time and check the test light, doesn't take that long to find the culprit circuit, clock in radio is always on so, pull that one first and leave it out if test light is still glowing.

 

[Lindy]

Thanks for the ideas! I took them to the guy today (Tuesday). He can probably get to it Friday to check them out. I told him I'd call Friday afternoon to see how it's going. I'll be back to let you know.

Thanks again!

 

[rusty7983]

What is your location? Sounds to me like you need another "guy." If you go this route, go to the autoparts stores where the garages buy from. Ask them who they use to work on their personal vechicles( not the companies) Or who they recommend. I have worked in parts houses for years and although I am a trained and certified technician, I sometimes have to have somebody do work for me. By talking and dealing with mechanics and technicians you get a real understanding who you 3want and don't want working on your vechicles.

 

[Lindy]

Hey, I haven't forgotten that I've put this issue here. It frustrates me to see how long it's been a problem...since MARCH...and especially since I gave "the guy" your ideas.

He has had one more thing to do...run the wire directly to the battery (or something like that) for a couple of weeks. I will call him again tomorrow and see if there's been any progress. So far it's been "when you can get to it." Now it's going to be "I want an appointment...put me on your calendar."

He's done work for me for years and this is the first time I've been unhappy with him. He's having some personal issues which I understand, but I think I've been plenty patient. At this point I'd be glad to have it back the way it was when I took it in. It was driveable, and hey...I'll carry a jumper pack with me!

If I don't have an answer by the end of the month, I'll take rusty7983's advice and get a recommendation for another "guy."

Whatever the outcome, whenever I get it...I will post it here.

Thanks for being here!

 

[Lindy]

Hey, good news! He hooked up the battery the old way and she starts...and re-starts...fine! He's thinks the wire from the battery to the kill switch was too long and is going to re-do it with a shorter wire. (He's done it previously on several vehicles with no problem.) The switch may not be as convenient, but that'll be okay with me.

RonD...I'm going to reprint your suggestion for tracking down the battery drain. Given a choice I'd rather get that fixed than have a kill switch. Always resetting those radio stations, ya know. ;-)

 

[Tedybear]

Noticed the tailgate wasn't closing properly, causing the interior light to stay on

Anyone want to place a bet this was the cause of the battery drain? I've seen this mistake happen so many times and people chasing their tails trying to locate a drain...

Let us know how you make out with it!

S-

 

[jhammel85]

Glovebox will do it if you sit long enough...Trust me, I've done it.

 

[wildbill23c]

Why not do some simple trouble shooting rather than throwing parts at the problem. If it starts and drives then you shut it off and it won't restart. By not restarting I'm guessing you mean it won't turn over, no clicks nothing?

Anyhow shut the truck off, get out a volt meter and check the battery. If the voltage drops steadily you have a short somewhere. If not, you have an electrical problem somewhere causing the ignition not to work. Sounds to me like if you can jump start it, then there's either a short somewhere causing the battery to drain rapidly, or you have some seriously loose wiring connections or corrosion somewhere.

Regardless though start tracing the problem rather than replacing parts that aren't needed. Did you ever replace the starter solenoid, it could have a fault in it that shows up once the truck has been running and it gets hot, then after it sits for a while the solenoid has cooled down enough to work again.

 

[Shran]

I think you need another "guy" to look at it. I might put a battery isolator/kill switch on one of MY own personal vehicles but I would never advocate that to someone paying me to work on their vehicle. I also think the theory of the wire being too long is BS.

It sounds to me like there is some relatively minor electrical issue and he either doesn't want to fix it properly or has no idea how to find the problem and solve it.

 

[wildbill23c]

I agree, sounds like this mechanic is just taking money from you and not wanting to really fix the problem, and not wanting to take the time to even trace the problem.

I'd get that thing back home and work on it myself if it was me.

 

[Lindy]

Hi guys! Good news! Like I said on 7/29 she seemed to be starting and re-starting. Let her sit for awhile (days/weeks) and she started right up...apparently no battery drain...and re-started! He undid everything he did earlier and connected the battery directly to ground. (?) I think that's what he said. I really don't know anything about this kind of thing.

Anyway, she seems to be running fine. Needed a new muffler/tailpipe (following annual safety inspection) and the lifetime muffler deal I got 17 years ago paid off...again.

So she's back home and I'm happy. I'm slowly regaining confidence in her and taking her out now and then.

The guy didn't charge anything for the undoing of what he did earlier. I'm happy with that.

Can't thank all of you enough for listening and giving ideas. Thank you, thank you, thank you! That's a start.