axle choices befor brake job

[anothermbdusted]

So my little 97 ranger 2.3l has been having problems with the rear brakes. So i took it in to get looked at and was told the whole rear end brake system need replaced springs shoes drums and so forth was there and it is pretty dang bad!! little pissed but all good. so i called the local junk yard and they said i could get any rear end for $180 tire to tire so i was wondering would it be better to swap in a 8.8 now or just rebuild the brakes on my 7.5? my rear end has 3.73 gears and i need something along the lines of 4.56 gears (future 31" tires)or as close as possible and i dont have lsd in mine its open.. are they worth it in the snow? as i will be driving this in the winters here in utah unless its really bad then ill drive my jeep cherokee... whats you opinion? im planning on camburg front end later in the year and 31s very soon.

 

[brinker88]

Swap the rear in if thats what you want to do. But rest assured that one will need all new brakes as well. I'd look into an explorer disc brake 8.8 swap if I were you.

 

[88_Eddie]

if you're gonna do a swap, i agree with brink, get a disc 8.8

time is money as well, and getting all those springs and adjusters and shoes back on a drum axle is gonna take forever. especially if you've only done it a few times or never at all. disc brakes just require taking off 5 lug nuts and 2 caliper bolts. last i looked, drums were more expensive than rotors too.

also, you may get lucky and not need new rotors. the 8.8 i bought had rotors that were in good shape, so i just replaced the pads

 

[brinker88]

You have to do some welding on the axle tho. If you dont know how to do brakes, I highly doubt you could manage to make the professional welds needed for this swap to work smoothly.

 

[JoshT]

Ok I did a quick run through of parts on advance auto parts site. It puts you at ~$140 in parts to replace everything back there on your 7.5", that is assuming that you have 10" drums. You likely have 9" but the price is close to the same, maybe a little less. I'm sure you could beat that price if you shop around, and I know you can do the work yourself if you care to try. The hardest part of working on drum brakes is adjusting them and bleeding the system when replacing a wheel cylinder.

Now the 8.8 is likely to need the same work done. If you go with a bolt in Ranger 8.8 with drum brakes you are looking at about the same price for parts. If you can afford it I recommend go ahead and do the swap now, rather than having to buy the parts all over again later. Better to spend 300 now than 140 now, plus the 300 later when you do the swap.

As others mentioned if you are going to do an 8.8 swap you might as well go with the Explorer disk brake axle. Especially if you can weld (or know someone) and if they are really the same price as you suggest. Given your desire to lift and run bigger tires the disks would be a really good upgrade. New pads and rotors will run you 100 bucks, give or take 20 depending on which pads you want. Disks are a lot easier to replace. You biggest drawback to an explorer axle will be installation, you have to flip the mounting brackets (welding), figure out shock mounting (potential welding), and figure out how to hook up the parking brake.

If you know you want an 8.8, you don't mind drum brakes, don't mind spending the 300 (including new brake components), and don't want the hassles of installing an Explorer axle I recommend go ahead and do the swap. If you want the 8.8 disks but can't handle the mods required to mount it I recommend doing the brake job on the 7.5 and save up for the work needed to mount that axle. If you want the 8.8 with disks and can handle doing the swap now I recommend going straight to it.

You have to do some welding on the axle tho. If you dont know how to do brakes, I highly doubt you could manage to make the professional welds needed for this swap to work smoothly.

I think that's taking it a little far. Knowing how to weld and being mechanically inclined are completely unrelated. I went to school (avaition maintenance tech) that could weld great, but were not worth a crap at most things mechanical. I now work with a few electricians and a number of sheetmetal (basically a body man for aircraft) mechanics that are great in their respective skills, can weld good, but once you ask them to use more than remove a bolt they are lost. On the flip side I can do almost anything mechanical that is needed on one of these trucks from brake jobs to engine rebuilds, but I can't weld (though I've only tried with stick). To quote my welding instructor from school "thank god (I) only have to be able to identify a good weld, cause (I) can't weld for shit." He also said that he was sure he could teach me to weld better, but I'd have to sign up for classes cause there wasn't enough time in that one.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

IMHO, I'd think about doing the axle upgrade (although 4.10 gears are about the best you can hope to find, even though I've heard that there were some factory 4.56 ratios, chances are you'll never find one in a bone yard). I'd also buy at least the brake pads/shoes (and calipers if you go to a disk brake rear axle) from Autozone. Not that I'm overly in love with the company, but when they say lifetime warranty on brake pads, shoes and calipers, they mean as long as you own the vehicle. (Advance says lifetime warranty, but don't ever try to get them replaced!)

 

[anothermbdusted]

i wonder how much it would cost a shop to do the welding for you as you were correct about that i cant weld always wanted to learn but never have at all and as for installing it then that would be np at all,tyvm for all the pinions and comments making choices a little easier..

 

[JoshT]

I'd also buy at least the brake pads/shoes (and calipers if you go to a disk brake rear axle) from Autozone. Not that I'm overly in love with the company, but when they say lifetime warranty on brake pads, shoes and calipers, they mean as long as you own the vehicle. (Advance says lifetime warranty, but don't ever try to get them replaced!)

I don't agree with doing that, and I'll never understand why they let that happen. That "Lifetime Warranty" is there for premature wear and failure, not for normal wear. Auto Zone is loosing money on that, the pad manufacturer is loosing money on that, and you are replacing you brakes more often than necessary because of inferior parts. If you conscious will let you take advantage of it then more power to you, it's their fault allowing it to happen. Personally I'll keep buying the little more expensive pads and rest easily knowing I can count on my brakes when I need them.

Also (think you should know this) if he buys a complete explorer axle he shouldn't need to buy calipers, they aren't a wear item. Sure they can fail, but no point in replacing then until they do because there's a good chance they never will.

 

[anothermbdusted]

personally 2 big things i never cheap out on in a vehicle is the brakes and the tires. they are the biggest things that will stop you in a accident situation if it should arise....

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I don't agree with doing that, and I'll never understand why they let that happen. That "Lifetime Warranty" is there for premature wear and failure, not for normal wear. Auto Zone is loosing money on that, the pad manufacturer is loosing money on that, and you are replacing you brakes more often than necessary because of inferior parts. If you conscious will let you take advantage of it then more power to you, it's their fault allowing it to happen. Personally I'll keep buying the little more expensive pads and rest easily knowing I can count on my brakes when I need them.

Also (think you should know this) if he buys a complete explorer axle he shouldn't need to buy calipers, they aren't a wear item. Sure they can fail, but no point in replacing then until they do because there's a good chance they never will.

Their lifetime warranty is similar to Craftsman's warranty - satisfaction comes first. Advance's is premature wear and failure. Autozone from what I understand has a deal worked out with the manufacturer on that and the stuff is priced accordingly based on how often people actually take advantage of the warranty. You figure most people keep a car only several years at best, so they maybe replace the brakes twice at most and how many of those forget about their warranty? Once you sell the car and buy something else, the warranty is no good anymore (unless you would buy the same type of car again but that is where it starts to get into dishonesty).

Their cheapest brake pads are NOT covered by such a warranty, it is ONLY their better grades of pads (Valucraft are one year warranty, Duralast, Duralast Gold (typically ceramic), Cmax (premium Ceramic), and Severe Duty pads are lifetime - Severe Dutys are top-of-the-line, but you'll also pay around $60 for a set).

I'm not telling anyone that they should abuse the system. Just that it is something to consider getting because they actually stand behind their products. And they have no problems if you come in for a warranty swap and want to upgrade - you just have to pay the price difference.

And yes, I do know that brake calipers under normal use typically do not need to be replaced. But when an axle has been sitting in a junkyard for 4 or 5 years around here, the calipers are typically frozen tighter than the hubs of he!!.

 

[Heavyfire14]

honestly if you dont mind the drum brakes, just do a ranger 8.8 rear end the 28 spline 8.8 from a 4.0 ranger can handle a 2.3l in almost any sitution... i love my ranger 8.8, i have 4.56 gears and 33" tall tires and i can still break em loose at the stoplight

 

[anothermbdusted]

Heavyfire14: I want to say tyvm as your build thread has helped me make up my mind on what to do with my truck... im going to go to the local yard tomorrow and see if they still have the rear end out of this 04 that was there 2 weeks ago and if so im going to grab it. if not ill put in a request to search for one with a 4.10 or prefer 4.56 gears in it and a newer rear end... ill take the gamble on the brakes and pray they are good and if not then it shouldnt cost to much to fix it i hope.. im thinking the explorer rear end would be very nice but cost me way to much to do and i dont have the skills to do so. where as the 8.8 rear end i can do all myself and save a ton on labor im thinking.. so now i need to figure out all the stuff i need as im going to grab everything i can ...going to drop the shocks and leaf springs and ujoint and brake lines and have the fork lift put it on my trailer that way. any pointers or parts i should buy for the project then?

 

[JoshT]

Their cheapest brake pads are NOT covered by such a warranty, it is ONLY their better grades of pads (Valucraft are one year warranty, Duralast, Duralast Gold (typically ceramic), Cmax (premium Ceramic), and Severe Duty pads are lifetime - Severe Dutys are top-of-the-line, but you'll also pay around $60 for a set).

And yes, I do know that brake calipers under normal use typically do not need to be replaced. But when an axle has been sitting in a junkyard for 4 or 5 years around here, the calipers are typically frozen tighter than the hubs of he!!.

Ok that makes the warranty deal sound a little better and puts it onto the store employees. Around here an Auto Zone employee will do that with any pad bought in there. I've personally seen people warranty the cheapest set of pads (based on what was given as replacements) the store carries. Also have a friend that's bounced around all the local auto parts chains since high school (smart kid, but rough family situation caused him to drop out) and I heard him complain about it more than once when he was working there.

Never had that experience with calipers myself. Granted the one time I had to buy a caliper I bought a new one, and I've never bought an axle from the junkyard. This Explorer donor have had been siting about that long, hope I don't have problem with it.