aftermarket filter

[lil red]

You proved my point!!!!! Do you really think the carb forces the air into the engine? I guess that follows your thinking that the intake forces air into a EFI engine!!!

For your information, the 780CFM carb was used on the BOSS 302, and there was a version that did turn 9K RPMS!!!

http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=232

not to be a know it all or anything but
yes a carb does infact FORCE air into an engine, it creates a suction with the venturi (sp?).
and i have seen and felt the gains of a k&n filter on a friends truck, it was a slug whaen he got it, replaced the filter with a stock one, still a slug, put anew muffler on it,
better, not by much
than he put the k&n on, the truck took off like a rocket, just a beast
than the filter got dirty
thats what wheeling does, it was about where it was with the stock filter
i cleaned and oiled it, and yet again, it was a screamer

i vote k&n all the way, plus i really like the sound

 

[Bob Ayers]

not to be a know it all or anything but
yes a carb does infact FORCE air into an engine, it creates a suction with the venturi (sp?).
and i have seen and felt the gains of a k&n filter on a friends truck, it was a slug whaen he got it, replaced the filter with a stock one, still a slug, put anew muffler on it,
better, not by much
than he put the k&n on, the truck took off like a rocket, just a beast
than the filter got dirty
thats what wheeling does, it was about where it was with the stock filter
i cleaned and oiled it, and yet again, it was a screamer

i vote k&n all the way, plus i really like the sound

WRONG, with a N/A engine, it's ALWAYS the engine (specifically the pistons going down on the intake stroke) that pulls the air into the engine, NOT the carb, and NOT the intake & air filter!!

And NO the carb venturi DOES NOT create the "suction", the engine pulling air through the carb venturi creates a vacuum!!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

not to be a know it all or anything but
yes a carb does infact FORCE air into an engine, it creates a suction with the venturi (sp?).
and i have seen and felt the gains of a k&n filter on a friends truck, it was a slug whaen he got it, replaced the filter with a stock one, still a slug, put anew muffler on it,
better, not by much
than he put the k&n on, the truck took off like a rocket, just a beast
than the filter got dirty
thats what wheeling does, it was about where it was with the stock filter
i cleaned and oiled it, and yet again, it was a screamer

i vote k&n all the way, plus i really like the sound

I noticed no benefit when I put one on my car, maybe it doesn't have as much effect on a turbocharged engine but I was left wanting my $40 back.

 

[almostclueless]

Mr Ayers is right; venturis don't get air/fuel into an engine, they only get finely misting fuel up into the throat of the carb so the engine can suck it and air in. The only other way an engine could get much fuel at all is at really high revs.

 

[LearjetMinako]

There have been documented cases of fouled MAFs from K&N filters. K&N blames this on "improper oiling," but don't bother to tell you what "proper oiling" is (I'll assert that this is because there is no proper oiling).

There USED to be data on K&N's website that indicated filtering efficiency problems at 1-10 microns, but it's gone now (gee, I wonder why).

Reusability isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. I can change a paper filter in a couple of minutes. I can't wash, air dry, and reoil a K&N filter in anywhere near that time. As for "using resources," you're using more by trying to clean it (water, mystery cleaner, oil, packaging, etc.). And what do you do with the toxic waste you created?

As hard to believe. Yes, that makes sense. Another reason why I ditch the K&N filter.

My little 96- 4-banger use to run the K&N FIPK intake kit. It did provide better throttle response and better pulling power to 4,800rpms. But after I got an oil ansylis done, I had silicon levels of 90ppm. After removing the K&N intake kit and another oil test done. Silicon levels dropped to 35ppm. I have a third oil sample ready, just haven't mailed it yet to BlackStone Labs.

 

[exbass94]

I never understood why people bought aftermarket intakes. What is the biggest restricition in the intake system? The filter? Nope. Intake tube? Nope. MAF sensor? Guess again. Give up? The throttle body!! (And no, I'm not suggesting you go and buy an aftermarket thorttle body.) Think about it. It's a big friggin plate that blocks off almost the ENTIRE intake (at idle). If you want more airflow, STEP ON THE GAS PEDAL. The plate will open, allowing more air into the engine! No aftermarket crap required! And if you step on the pedal just a little bit, like you do in everyday driving, the plate will only open just a little bit, because the engine simply does not need any more air. ie. any aftermarket intake will not benefit you in any way. Only if you're already at WOT and still don't have enough airflow, THEN an aftermarket intake can be a benefit. But, as was already stated, the stock intake will flow more than your engine will ever need.

And better throttle response doesn't automatically mean more horsepower. Does doing the throttle cable mod increase hp? Nope.

 

[LearjetMinako]

The more main reason why I did it. Was to get rid of the intake silence muffler. Dang thing has a hole diameter smaller than the throttle body.

Well, lessons learned. I do miss the ever so slightly accleration gain at WOT. But I prefer the engine to last at least 250K miles.

Young driver learns old lesson. , but that was 4 years ago.

 

[Maverick]

You proved my point!!!!! Do you really think the carb forces the air into the engine? I guess that follows your thinking that the intake forces air into a EFI engine!!!

For your information, the 780CFM carb was used on the BOSS 302, and there was a version that did turn 9K RPMS!!!

http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=232

No a carb doesn't force air in your engine, neither did my intake. It just relaced the factory air box that breathed through a 2" airhorn, and got rid of the funky intake tube. I know the 780 CFM carb was used Boss 302, I just left that little part out so you would have to do a little more research for your next answer. The version of the Boss 302 that was available to the public didn't turn 9K, but still had a 780CFM carb. Even the one that could turn 9K still couldn't use all that carb because it's not 100% efficient.

apparently good research on what actually gets through a K&N is worthless because labs arent "the real world." Not everyone needs to "mod" their vehicle to make them feel special and running a stock paper filter never hurt any vehicle I've ever seen. The extra .5 horsepower I MIGHT gain is not worth the hassle of cleaning & oiling a reusable filter. not to mention my truck never sees anything higher than 55 mph so I don't need the extra filtering capacity that a K&N MIGHT get me. I have more fun crawling at under 10 mph then I ever would going fast. Call me old if you want but I'm 22 years old, I just research what I do before I think its the best thing in the world.

on a side note: I like photography but I'm also a mechanic, does liking photography make me know any less about what I do? Please think before you assume. and by the way

I've read lots of info on K&N's and I know that they do pass more dirt than a stock filter, but not much. From what I've read up to 4% more than a stock filter. Some studies less than .5%. This it what I've READ because I have no way of testing it myself. While any dirt is not good to ingest, 4% (at most) is hardly going to "dust" out a motor. You can have a bad seal on your air box or a loose hose clamp and pass more dirt than that. And no, a lab is not "real world", it's actually far from it. It's a controlled enviroment. Modding my rig doesn't make me feel special, it makes me happy But a K&N filter is not a mod nor do I think it's the best thing in the world. I don't have one in anything I currently own. In my first post I just stated my experience in that it didn't screw up my MAF sensor, didn't pass dirt through (that was detectable), and that the Duratech seemed to benefit from it. The 3.0 truck saw hundreds of miles of dirt roads last summer and at the end of the dry season I cleaned the K&N and guess what? No dirt down the intake tube!! That's what I call real world! Not just some shit I regurgitated off somebody elses website Normally I won't even talk about something I dont have personal experience with and if I do it comes with a disclaimer. I too like photography but am a mechanic by trade. I know alot more about wrenching than I do about photography so im not about to tell bobby about photography. That's why I said stick to you know. Or in your case, what other people know

 

[lil red]

WRONG, with a N/A engine, it's ALWAYS the engine (specifically the pistons going down on the intake stroke) that pulls the air into the engine, NOT the carb, and NOT the intake & air filter!!

And NO the carb venturi DOES NOT create the "suction", the engine pulling air through the carb venturi creates a vacuum!!

ya the piston starts of the prosses, but the venturi does create negitave preassure, or increases the negative preassure if you wanna get technical
and i still belive in K&N, if they can last 6 seasons on a 600+HP car that runs on dirt and dirt alone, and still filter out enough to make said motors last, they have my vote

 

[lil red]

Mr Ayers is right; venturis don't get air/fuel into an engine, they only get finely misting fuel up into the throat of the carb so the engine can suck it and air in. The only other way an engine could get much fuel at all is at really high revs.

sorry for the boggin, missed this one
like i already said, it creates negative preassure, that means it is FORCING air and fuel into the motor
it pulls from the peak in.

its basic four stroke theory, actually basic engine theory
which i learned from a man who has tought it for, o lets see
about 48 years, yes 48, he tought the same thing to my father, in the same auto shop, with (allot of) the same tools as when he started at 22

cheers to Mr.E

 

[almostclueless]

Wow, I never knew that....I guess I'll go put a 36" wide venturi on top of the engine in my ranger so it ingests as much air as a mountain motor. Screw getting a turbo.

 

[MAKG]

ya the piston starts of the prosses, but the venturi does create negitave preassure, or increases the negative preassure if you wanna get technical
and i still belive in K&N, if they can last 6 seasons on a 600+HP car that runs on dirt and dirt alone, and still filter out enough to make said motors last, they have my vote

Well, it's true that there is a region of vacuum inside the venturi, but you're misunderstanding it. It doesn't suck air through the venturi. It just speeds up the airflow in the vicinity of the main jet. This sucks FUEL into the carburetor, since the bowl is vented to the atmosphere. The absolute pressure is the same above and below the venturi. It's just in the neck that it's reduced.

It's a very clever solution (for 1930s technology) to a physical problem. The vacuum is (to a point) proportional to the flow speed. So it sucks proportionally more fuel in.

You CAN get pressure waves from the exhaust into the intake actually sucking air/fuel in, but that requires careful tuning, it only works at one specific RPM, and it virtually never happens on a driveable street vehicle (it IS a useful technique for some race engines, though).

 

[Bob Ayers]

Wow, I never knew that....I guess I'll go put a 36" wide venturi on top of the engine in my ranger so it ingests as much air as a mountain motor. Screw getting a turbo.

Good point! And the way some people think, using a sewer pipe as an intake will give an incredible increase in HP!!!

 

[Bob Ayers]

sorry for the boggin, missed this one
like i already said, it creates negative preassure, that means it is FORCING air and fuel into the motor
it pulls from the peak in.

its basic four stroke theory, actually basic engine theory
which i learned from a man who has tought it for, o lets see
about 48 years, yes 48, he tought the same thing to my father, in the same auto shop, with (allot of) the same tools as when he started at 22

cheers to Mr.E

Ask your teacher if it is "forcing air and fuel into the motor" why is there intake manifold vacuum, instead of pressure?

Teaching it wrong for all those years, and nobody has corrected him???

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Does doing the throttle cable mod increase hp? Nope.

On a high milage vehicle it sure does. I borrowed my parents '94 Explorer with 170k on it, I drove most of the way up to Omaha with the pedal on the floor, a scotch lock (with the metal thing removed) and a couple zip ties later and I could actually outrun the exhaust fumes. Granted the power was there all along, but since I couldn't get to it, it wasn't doing me much good. I really don't know how they tolerated it like it was.

It is a cheap fix for a stretched cable, not a power increaser.


I did a little intake trick on my F-150, replaced the first 8" or so of the intake that goes into the fender with a piece of 3" PVC pipe. I didn't really notice much a difference, but it does look much better and cost less than $20. The part I replaced was smaller at it's smallest point than my TB. Also, to do it right you have to reset your PCM, and that drastically changed how my truck ran until it relearned my driving style, so it makes a precise before and after rather difficult to gauge with the butt dyno, but I am happy with it... and it is 95% factory stock.

http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297846