Adjusting Wheel Bearings

[harriw]

So when I bought my '94 4x4 (4.0 ext. cab w/ 5spd) back in the end of January, it already had Warn manual hubs installed up front, but needed new brakes and rotors. My brother-in-law got his shop at the dealership to do them essentially at cost for me, so i was good to go. Now, 9 months later, I just noticed that the wheel bearings are loose.

So, here's the question. How far do I need to/should I go? Can I get away with just pulling off the hubs and re-tightening the adjusting nuts? Or should I pull off the caliper and rotor, remove the bearings, clean 'em, re-grease 'em (or replace 'em if they're worn), put on new wheel seals, and re-assemble everything? For what it's worth, I hear no bearing noise what-so-ever, and the braking is great. There's just about 1/16th inch of wobble to the wheels (top-bottom and side-to-side) that I already confirmed is not due to the ball-joints/TRE's.

Final question if I tear it all down - after 9 months, do you think I'm OK re-installing the existing rotors and pads as-is, or should I get the rotors turned first, and/or get new pads as well?

Thanks!

-Bill

 

[martin]

If there is really only 1/16 and there really is no noise and if everything was new back in January, I would just re-adjust and call it good.

 

[97BlackBetty]

Yea just re-adjust. There should be no reason whatsoever to have to go and replace bearings yet. Might it be worth it to clean and repack them, possibly. I did mine last Thursday and its time to do them again, result of deep water and sand.

When you do re-adjust them, I use a few different tools to ensure I get a good setting. Ford suggests torqueing to 15 inch pounds for the inner lock nut. First step however is to seat the bearings. Always make sure to rotate rotor while setting the inner locknut. Torque the inner lock nut to 200 lb/ft. Back off one full turn. Set to 15 lb/in. (I just use a standard half inch drive ratchet for this step. While spinning the rotor I take it down as hard as I can, then back off 1/4 turn). Put on the lock ring, if you cant get the hole to line up with the pin, tighten the inner lock nut until it will line up. Put the outer nocknut on and torque to 200-250 lb/ft. Your all set to go.

My assumption would be that when the shop assembled and set the torque specs on the outer locknut, that they only torqued to the Ford recommended 125-150 lb/ft. ASE uses the 200-250 for all locknuts smaller the 2 5/8 inch.

 

[harriw]

That's great to hear guys - in that case I can git 'er done tonight and be done with it. I was a bit worried about messing up the rotor and pad mating surfaces/angles by just re-adjusting them, but I suppose a floating caliper should adjust itself, right? Also, you don't think the bearings would be damaged at all from the wiggle? It really is about 1/16" inch - MAYBE 1/8", but no more than that. I guess I'd hear them squealing away if they were unhappy, huh... I don't wheel or anything, just a daily driver, so I think I'd think the bearings should still be well greased after just 9 months. I figure I'll just clean and re-grease them whenever I need to replace the brakes in a year or two. Have to pull them out to replace the rotor anyway...

200 FT-lbs. for the INNER locknut in the adjustment stage? Did I read that right, or was it a typo? I thought 35 ft-lbs was the recommendation for adjusting/seating the bearings, then back off, and tighten to 15 in-lbs? (I've heard people recommend going up to 20 or 25 in-lbs though), then the lock ring, and then the 200-250 ft-lbs for the outer nut. I've borrowed an in-lbs torque wrench from work, have my own mid-range 3/8 drive, and got autozone's loaner 250 ft-lb wrench so I should be in good shape in terms of measurement.

This was my bro-in-law's Ford dealership that did the brakes right when I bought it, so I also came to the conclusion that they used the 150 ft-lbs. Ford spec. I imagine the mechanic hasn't seen too many '94's with Warn manual hubs lately, and just looked it up in the book.

One other question - how do you you folks hold the spindle/rotor stationary while torquing down that outer nut to 250 ft-lbs? Do you just stick a second bar between wheel studs and brace it that way? Oh wait..... The nuts go on the spindle, which is bolted to the knuckle, which is stationary.... right? Just crank away on it and be careful not to knock it off the jackstand then? MAN there's a lot going on in this setup.....

Thanks again guys!

 

[harriw]

Hey, one more thing I just realized... In researching how to do the bearings, I found the ball-joint replacement how-to's/threads most useful, and had it in my head that I'd have to pop off the c-clip and the 2-3 washers on the axle holding it out from the spindle, but I should be able to leave them on there and put the spindle-nut socket right over them, right? Alll I gotta do is pop off the wheel and hub, and go to work on those nuts, right?

Thanks again folks.

-Bill

 

[ZRANGER5.0]

taje the wheel off then the hub and there will be two spline washer type things. which you have to have the socket to fit can get it at part store. back off first one tighten down inner with FINGERS then sinch 1/4 turn with wrench check by spinning then tighten down outer nut put. put hub and wheel on and your on your way!

 

[Hahnsb2]

First step however is to seat the bearings. Always make sure to rotate rotor while setting the inner locknut. Torque the inner lock nut to 200 lb/ft. .

That is WAY too much torque, the suggested 35 ft/lbs to seat the bearing is PLENTY.

 

[Yellowsplash]

One other question - how do you you folks hold the spindle/rotor stationary while torquing down that outer nut to 250 ft-lbs? Do you just stick a second bar between wheel studs and brace it that way?

The easiest way is to have a second person put a larger sized screwdriver or some sort of prybar capable of resting comfortably in the splines of the inner locknut. From there, its a kinda tricky, but as you carefully crank down on the outer to 200 ft/lbs, they muscle the inner locknut to prevent movement. If you dont prevent the inner from turning, you have just screwed your initial preload on the bearing and risk the chance of overheating and failure. Ever removed a rotor to find the roller bearings fall out and the inner bearing seat seized to the spindle....not a fun fix.

 

[PlumCrazy]

The easiest way is to have a second person put a larger sized screwdriver or some sort of prybar capable of resting comfortably in the splines of the inner locknut. From there, its a kinda tricky, but as you carefully crank down on the outer to 200 ft/lbs, they muscle the inner locknut to prevent movement. If you dont prevent the inner from turning, you have just screwed your initial preload on the bearing and risk the chance of overheating and failure. Ever removed a rotor to find the roller bearings fall out and the inner bearing seat seized to the spindle....not a fun fix.

As long as you make sure the tab is tight in the clockwise direction in the groove before you put the outer nut on the spindle, then it wont turn and screw up the torque on the inner nut.

-plumcrazy

 

[harriw]

Hey guys,

Got them all set now - hopefully they'll stay put for a while. I took the inners down to about 18 in-lbs, and the outers to 220 ft-lbs. I did need to pull the C-clip and washer - the spindle nuts won't fit over them.

I also found that on one side, someone had been careless and allowed the lock washer to cut itself a groove through the spindle threads so that the notch in the spindle wouldn't keep the washer in place properly, and the inner nut would spin along with the outer nut when tightening. The screw-driver trick mentioned above took care of it, but it was a bit puttery. Anyone run into this before and come up with a better solution?

I also found that the rubber ring gasket that seals the hub between the hub and rotor was missing on one side (and was broken in one place on the other side). I'll try to get a replacement pair next time I take the wheels off, but for now I think I managed to seal things up OK with a bead of grease.

Now that I've seen this first hand, I think I'd prefer the nut-and-wedge arrangement the auto hubs use over puttering around with the two nuts and lock washer (I had to re-do each side a dozen times because even after setting the inner nut properly and making sure it didn't move, the rotor was still too tight for my liking once the outer nut was torqued down). Is there any reason why you can't use them with the manual hubs too?

Thanks for all your help guys! No more wheel wobble for me!

-Bill

 

[PlumCrazy]

Hey guys,

Got them all set now - hopefully they'll stay put for a while. I took the inners down to about 18 in-lbs, and the outers to 220 ft-lbs. I did need to pull the C-clip and washer - the spindle nuts won't fit over them.

I also found that on one side, someone had been careless and allowed the lock washer to cut itself a groove through the spindle threads so that the notch in the spindle wouldn't keep the washer in place properly, and the inner nut would spin along with the outer nut when tightening. The screw-driver trick mentioned above took care of it, but it was a bit puttery. Anyone run into this before and come up with a better solution?

I also found that the rubber ring gasket that seals the hub between the hub and rotor was missing on one side (and was broken in one place on the other side). I'll try to get a replacement pair next time I take the wheels off, but for now I think I managed to seal things up OK with a bead of grease.

Now that I've seen this first hand, I think I'd prefer the nut-and-wedge arrangement the auto hubs use over puttering around with the two nuts and lock washer (I had to re-do each side a dozen times because even after setting the inner nut properly and making sure it didn't move, the rotor was still too tight for my liking once the outer nut was torqued down). Is there any reason why you can't use them with the manual hubs too?

Thanks for all your help guys! No more wheel wobble for me!

-Bill

If you make sure the tab on the lock washer is tight in the clockwise direction before you put the outer nut on, then it wont be able to turn and tighten the inner nut.

They only way to properly fix the groove that has been cut into the spindle is too replace the whole spindle. It doesnt take much to do, just remove the caliper and rotor, then remove the five bolts holding the spindle on. since you are going to replace the spindle anyway you can just hit end of it with a hammer to break it lose. If you ever have to remove a good spindle it helps to have an extra spindle nut around that you can screw on and hit to protect the threads. when you put it on just tighten the nuts in the same order you would tighten a 5 lug wheel.

And no you cant use the auto hub nuts, because they are too big and the manual hub wont fit over them.

-plumcrazy

 

[harriw]

I saw your tip on the keeping the washer tight clockwise and made sure I held it there while tightening. On the driver side, however, things always seemed to tighten up somehow when I put the outer nut on anyway. I didn't even see the inner nut or washer move at all (and used a scre-driver to make sure), but somehow they got tighter anwyay. Oh well - I managed to get it to my liking.

It seems like my lock washers were a tad too big - there wasn't much material on the notch that actually protruded down into the spindle groove - it's easy to see how it may have slipped and cut itself a groove in the spindle threads. Should they be a bit large like this, or do I maybe have the wrong size?

As I said, I managed to get that side tightened down even with the damaged notch. I thought of replacing the spindle, but needed the truck to get to work today, all the stores were closed by then, and I didn't really want to dump money into a spindle that's otherwise just fine. Figured I'd make sure there weren't any "magic fixes" out there.

Thanks again for all your help everyone!

-Bill

 

[PlumCrazy]

It seems like a lot of the lock washers I have worked with are a little bit sloppy, I recommended replacing the spindle because I was thinking that the groove you were talking about was a bit worse than it really was, as long as the outer nut isnt getting into the stripped threads on the spindle you will fine.

-plumcrazy

 

[4x4junkie]

I've seen a few guys add a bit of metal to the end of the tab with a welder, then shape it with a file so it's square again, making it stick down deeper into the spindle groove.

Another possibility is to bend the washer oval in a vise ever so slightly making the tab stick down more (careful though, I think they are somewhat brittle).

I've noticed myself the washers in some of the hub conversion kits are sloppier than the originals. Might be best to actually seek out the Spicer parts listed in the FAQ above. Not only are they cheaper, they might fit better too.