Accurate timing?

[Hoosierman]

All, I've been scouring this entire forum and the Ranger/BII forums for answers and I recall reading somewhere that the timing marks on the 2.8 may not be right or may be inaccurate themselves. Is this right?

I've spent most of my last 2 weekends chasing my tail over timing to finish out my Duraspark project: I have set the base timing to 10-12 BTDC, positioned the rotor at cylinder 1, firing order is correct, I have solid blue spark, and still the sucker refuses to start. But while it cranks, I get fuel to splash out of the non-feedback carb occasionally. Bottom line, I've checked just about everything I know to check. The occasional fuel shooting out of the carb at first glance would suggest timing is off but I'll be danged. Yes, I've made sure I'm on compression stroke too... I dunno, rather than going into another weekend, I figured I'd ask the knowledgeable folks here. I've looked at all of my notes, the manuals, looked at posts on other forums even...

1-4-2-5-3-6...

I guess on the positive side of things- I'll be trying some Koito H4 headlight conversions on this ride soon. If anyone is curious how they turn out, I'll be happy to make a post about it since quality glass assemblies seem to be drying up.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Last section first, I'd be glad if you post the headlight conversion. I believe I bought the same conversion kit from Toyota myself. I'll be a while before installing it tho.

The timing conundrum:
If you have a magnetic stand and a dial indicator you can get the piston near top dead center. Rotate the crank until the indicator doesnt move and continue rotation until it moves again. There is a certain amount of rotation at TDC that won't register. You want to find the beginning and end of that dead spot and put a temporary mark on the crank with a crayon or paint stick of both spots. Check rotating in the opposite direction to make sure the marks are the same. Half way is true TDC.

 

[Hoosierman]

Last section first, I'd be glad if you post the headlight conversion. I believe I bought the same conversion kit from Toyota myself. I'll be a while before installing it tho.

The timing conundrum:
If you have a magnetic stand and a dial indicator you can get the piston near top dead center. Rotate the crank until the indicator doesnt move and continue rotation until it moves again. There is a certain amount of rotation at TDC that won't register. You want to find the beginning and end of that dead spot and put a temporary mark on the crank with a crayon or paint stick of both spots. Check rotating in the opposite direction to make sure the marks are the same. Half way is true TDC.

I know lately Toyota has been releasing a lot of their Koito stock, but they're all round as far as I know. I'm just using rectangulars on the BII, and I had to acquire them from a FS Jeep shop.

I thought the dial indicator method requires the pistons to be exposed? Or is their another method? I do know of a fellow who rebuilt an engine and he showed me this trick but I believe the head was off to do it. EDIT: Nevermind on that, it just hit me that there is a way to do this with the spark plug hole. I'll look into the matter.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I know lately Toyota has been releasing a lot of their Koito stock, but they're all round as far as I know. I'm just using rectangulars on the BII, and I had to acquire them from a FS Jeep shop.

I thought the dial indicator method requires the pistons to be exposed? Or is their another method? I do know of a fellow who rebuilt an engine and he showed me this trick but I believe the head was off to do it. EDIT: Nevermind on that, it just hit me that there is a way to do this with the spark plug hole. I'll look into the matter.

Yes, round. For my Pinto and my box van.

 

[Hoosierman]

Yes, round. For my Pinto and my box van.

Hey at the ~$27ish I've been seeing them going for, I was starting to consider converting the headlights on this truck to give it a more classic appearance. But, I like the 80's style. Everything was just so square! I'm surprised these have circular steering wheels!

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I know they are gear drive but that sounds like maybe the valve timing is off....as in bad timing gears

 

[Hoosierman]

Maybe the pulley slipped somehow? I dunno.

Before I performed the conversion, I figured that since I was taking off the carb, I might as well service the valves since it's only a few bolts between us. I followed the correct procedure by the service manual to adjust the valves and the ones that were out of tolerance weren't too far out. Additionally, they all seemed to open and close fairly normally. That probably doesn't say much, but I figured I would mention it for what it's worth.

I don't have a dial indicator, and I don't even have a piston stop tool. I think I'll use a screwdriver in the sparkplug cylinder to measure where the piston stops on the pulley and find TDC there. Of course, my biggest concern now is; how long will it stay in timing.

FWIW, before I did all this, the truck ran fine (not exactly smoothly, just fine).

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Maybe the pulley slipped somehow? I dunno.

Before I performed the conversion, I figured that since I was taking off the carb, I might as well service the valves since it's only a few bolts between us. I followed the correct procedure by the service manual to adjust the valves and the ones that were out of tolerance weren't too far out. Additionally, they all seemed to open and close fairly normally. That probably doesn't say much, but I figured I would mention it for what it's worth.

I don't have a dial indicator, and I don't even have a piston stop tool. I think I'll use a screwdriver in the sparkplug cylinder to measure where the piston stops on the pulley and find TDC there. Of course, my biggest concern now is; how long will it stay in timing.

FWIW, before I did all this, the truck ran fine (not exactly smoothly, just fine).

When you do that pull the valve cover too and make sure both valves are closed. If they arent you got timing gear issues

 

[Hoosierman]

When you do that pull the valve cover too and make sure both valves are closed. If they arent you got timing gear issues

Oh but I already did all that. That was three weekends ago at least, maybe four now. Yep, the service manual was a lifesaver there

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Oh but I already did all that. That was three weekends ago at least, maybe four now. Yep, the service manual was a lifesaver there

ah ok.

Just seems if its blowing gas out the carb you gotta have compression backfeeding

 

[Hoosierman]

ah ok.

Just seems if its blowing gas out the carb you gotta have compression backfeeding

Which in turn can suggest a deeper timing issue or perhaps the intake valve(s) sticking. I will say that before I removed the valve covers, I used compressed air to blow all of the dirt off the engine and get the engine bay cleaner in general. Suppose a little bit of that still made it's way into the valve train, that might cause this issue? It was mostly dried mud that I had to clear out.

 

[Shran]

So it's not popping or anything? You would think if you have fuel and spark, it would at least backfire or do something unless it has no compression or it's flooded so bad that the plugs won't fire. Are you totally sure that you didn't stab the distributor 180 degrees off and it's firing on the exhaust stroke?

I guess since you messed with the valves it might not hurt to run a compression test and see if any are not closing. IIRC you're supposed to adjust them while the engine is warm.

 

[Hoosierman]

I would describe what I'm hearing as a sort of "popping". When I crank, occasionally I'll get puffs out of the carb, whether it's liquid gas or vapor, I can't be too certain. And sometimes when I crank, I get absolutely nothing. I've not had anything ignite inside or outside of the engine yet.