A4LD to M5OD-R1 in 87 Bronco II

[kymadan]

I have gone through 16 pages so far and I'm not quite getting the answers I need. I have a 4x4 1987 Bronco II and it has the 2.9 w/ A4LD setup, the transmission has gone out. I also have a 4x4 1990 parts Ranger with a 2.9 w/ M5OD-R1 setup. I want to do the swap because I like the reliability of a stick shift over the A4LD, as well as the driving experience.

I am afraid that if a master from an 87 is combined with slave from 90 it wont release from clutch all the way. I looked up the part numbers for the slave cylinders, master cylinders, and clutches for both vehicles and they are all different.

1. Will the master from the 90 fit the 87 Bronco II? If so, I wont have to worry about any clutch compatibility issues. Except maybe pedal travel.

2. If not, do I need a master from an 87 and slave from 87 to match? Should the 87 slave work on 90 transmission with 90 clutch? I have seen the issue on here that someones clutch would not fully disengage. I believe the final fix was to cut the master cylinder shaft and weld in an extension to get more stroke. Don't remember if that was because pre-89 master was combined with later slave cylinder.

3. Will I have to cut out the floor opening, to make it bigger to fit the shifter?

4. I was informed that both transmissions are the same length and I wont have to change the cross-member or modify drive-shafts. Is this true?

I know I will need:

-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Master
-Hydraulic line and reservoir
-Slave
-Pedal Assembly
-Shifter and boot
-Computer
-Electrical work

 

[mjonesjr]

1. Will the master from the 90 fit the 87 Bronco II? If so, I wont have to worry about any clutch compatibility issues. Except maybe pedal travel.
- No. Different pedal assembly and fire wall design on the '90 compared to your '87. Just buy a new one for the '87.


2. If not, do I need a master from an 87 and slave from 87 to match? Should the 87 slave work on 90 transmission with 90 clutch? I have seen the issue on here that someones clutch would not fully disengage. I believe the final fix was to cut the master cylinder shaft and weld in an extension to get more stroke. Don't remember if that was because pre-89 master was combined with later slave cylinder.
- You will need the slave cylinder for the year of transmission since the M50D was not offered in '87. You will also need a hydraulic hose off a '90 so the fittings will fit in the '90 slave cylinder. If you do this, you shouldn't have any issue with the clutch. I put a '96 Ranger M50D in my '86 Bronco II without any problems; just make sure you have all the parts you need.


3. Will I have to cut out the floor opening, to make it bigger to fit the shifter?
- Since you are getting the parts from another Bronco II, just get the floor plate. If you pull the carpet, there is 5-6 bolts holding the shifter plate to the floor. If you swap those out, you will not have to cut your '87 plate.


4. I was informed that both transmissions are the same length and I wont have to change the cross-member or modify drive-shafts. Is this true?
- Yes, both the A4LD and the M50D is the same length. There will be no drive shaft length modifications needed. Your transfer case will bolt up to both of them, assuming you have 4wd. If you have 2wd, there still will not be any drive shaft modifications needed.


I know I will need:

-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Master
-Hydraulic line and reservoir
-Slave
-Pedal Assembly
-Shifter and boot
-Computer
-Electrical work
- Clutch Pedal Position Switch

My answers are in RED above.

Also, do yourself a favor and swap in the 4.0 clutch. You will need a 4.0 clutch kit and a 4.0 starter. It is a much stronger and bigger clutch than the 2.9 clutch.

 

[AllanD]

Just to reinforce what has already been said...

I have gone through 16 pages so far and I'm not quite getting the answers I need. I have a 4x4 1987 Bronco II and it has the 2.9 w/ A4LD setup, the transmission has gone out. I also have a 4x4 1990 parts Ranger with a 2.9 w/ M5OD-R1 setup. I want to do the swap because I like the reliability of a stick shift over the A4LD, as well as the driving experience.

Actually the pedals themselves are not enough different to matter MECHANICALLY as far as clutch actuation goes, the SAME master cylinder was used from 1983 through the end of 1992 what changed going into 1988 (When the MAzda was introduced) was that the LINE was changed

1989-up pedals would work but for two details...there are brackets missing for two switches that the clutch pedal actuates, one for the clutch interlock switch, and on this I STRONGLY recommend neglecting to install one (it's horrifically breakage prone) you have a "jumper" to bypass it already installed, and the other for the Clutch pedal switch to switch off the cruise control (if equipped) when you depress the clutch pedal

If you don't have cruise control there is no reason why you couldn't use 1988-94 pedals in your exsisting pedal bracket...

And there's one slightly good reasont to do so if you can... around 1991 Ford switched to a larger pedal pad
(not only the rubber but the steel behind it)

I'll presume you are smart enough to not crank the engine before you push on the clutch pedal

I am afraid that if a master from an 87 is combined with slave from 90 it wont release from clutch all the way. I looked up the part numbers for the slave cylinders, master cylinders, and clutches for both vehicles and they are all different.

SAME master cylinder was used from 1983-92, so NOT an issue.
The 1993-94 master, slave & line ARE different but the only thing there is that you need to use them as a set (I think the 1993 slave is a better piece than the early one)


1. Will the master from the 90 fit the 87 Bronco II? If so, I wont have to worry about any clutch compatibility issues. Except maybe pedal travel.
Yes.

2. If not, do I need a master from an 87 and slave from 87 to match? Should the 87 slave work on 90 transmission with 90 clutch? I have seen the issue on here that someones clutch would not fully disengage. I believe the final fix was to cut the master cylinder shaft and weld in an extension to get more stroke. Don't remember if that was because pre-89 master was combined with later slave cylinder.

the slave from an '87 WILL NOT work with the Mazda trans

3. Will I have to cut out the floor opening, to make it bigger to fit the shifter?

Yes, you will need the removeable floor plate that the 1988-up shift boot mounts to the shape of the sides of the back and sides of the floor plate are the same, the front of ithe 1988-up plate is extended forwards and you'll need to extend the hole in the floor of the truck forward to match the "new" plate.
The total ammount of metal that needs to be used is scarcely bigger than a postcard.

you will also NEED to REPLACE the catalytic converter heat shield because it's top inner profile is different than the earlier heat shield.
If you do not do this the noise that you'll hear as the physically larger Mazda transmission vibrates against it is truely horrific

4. I was informed that both transmissions are the same length and I wont have to change the cross-member or modify drive-shafts. Is this true?

Correct, the Mazda is the same OAL and uses the same crossmember placement as the A4LD you are removing
I know I will need:

-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Master
-Hydraulic line and reservoir
-Slave
-Pedal Assembly
-Shifter and boot
-Computer
-Electrical work

Good Luck!

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[kymadan]

Let me get this straight....

So the 1990 Rangers Clutch Master Cylinder will bolt in alright. Has anyone done this?

The pedal assembly "needs" to come out of an 88 or earlier.

And I will need the clutch switch, unless I remember to hit clutch every time. But there might be an instance where someone else might drive my truck, you never know. So I should just put it in there, it wont hurt.

Mjonesjr - How did you match up the 97 slave to the 86 Master Cylinder?

 

[pcollins]

i wouldn't worry so much about the clutch switch, the transmission should be in Neutral when starting anyways, and most people who drive standards have a habit already of starting w/ the clutch in...it may be easier to leave it out, but also the wiring might require it and make it easier.

I got lucky my ranger came from factory with an M5OD, so this is just my $.02

 

[99RangerKrazy]

i wouldn't worry so much about the clutch switch, the transmission should be in Neutral when starting anyways, and most people who drive standards have a habit already of starting w/ the clutch in...it may be easier to leave it out, but also the wiring might require it and make it easier.

I got lucky my ranger came from factory with an M5OD, so this is just my $.02

Yeah the person I bought my Ranger from did the A4LD to manual swap and he left the clutch switch out. Only a couple of times have I turned the key without the clutch in and it in gear...you'll push the clutch in right away.

 

[mjonesjr]

The wiring is already there for the CPP, why not use it and make the swap as close to factory as possible?

Not to mention the safety factor. If someone else drives your truck and you don't tell them about not having a CPP switch, if something happens you can be held responsible.

Do what you want, but if you screw something up or wreck your truck because you didn't have the clutch pedal pushed, don't come on here whining.

 

[kymadan]

Mjonesjr - How did you match up the 97 slave to the 86 Master Cylinder?

Did you use the 97 master? Or the 86 master?

 

[HareRazor]

The 97 and 86 master cylinders will be different styles. I believe the 97 master cylinder gets pushed up into the pedal bracket and twists into place without any bolts. The 86 master cylinder bolts to the firewall.

 

[AllanD]

The wiring is already there for the CPP, why not use it and make the swap as close to factory as possible?

Not to mention the safety factor. If someone else drives your truck and you don't tell them about not having a CPP switch, if something happens you can be held responsible.

Do what you want, but if you screw something up or wreck your truck because you didn't have the clutch pedal pushed, don't come on here whining.

If someone else drives MY truck either I am with them OR they are stealing it

as for the 1997 (actually 1993-current) Slave cylinder with the earlier 1983-92 master cylinder? this REQUIRES using a 1993-1994 clutch line (the quick connect couplers are NOT compatible) and reaults in a very stiff very quick clutch actuation.

If you LIKE having the entire motion of the clutch from no contact between your foot and the clutch completely released in about 1-1/4" of pedal travel
You'll love it.

but it comes at a price, if you actually push the pedal all the way to the floor you can break things, the plastic end on the pedal pushrod is a possibility (BTDT) and I've also CRACKED my firewall around the master cylinder mount...

As for the 1983-87 style Clutch multifinction switch.

DO NOT USE THEM

it WILL leave you stuck somewhere.

The 1988-up style switch mounts coaxially on the pedal pushrod and is essentially bulletproof, BUT requires some wiring work to install it.

the 1983-87's use a seperate switch for the starter interlock and cruise control.

On the later switch these functions are all integrated into one switch.

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[adsm08]

When I swapped an M5OD into my 87 Ranger I did the 10" clutch swap at the same time. My clutch, flywheel, trans, starter, speedo cable, and ALL of my hydraulic parts were ordered for a 91 Ranger. Aside from blowing out the used slave 3 weeks later I have had no issues from this setup. I will say definitively that if you get an 83 to 88 pedal assembly and use all 91 hydraulic parts that your setup will fit, match, and function as correctly as it is installed.