99 ranger brake problems

[cp2295]

So got a 99 3.0 4x4. it's got discs in front, drums in rear (10x2.5"). just wondering my brakes feel really bad. They've felt like this for a while now, no loss of brake fluid, they don't feel spongy, they feel really stiff. i'm thinking its a vacuum issue, brake booster or something. but sometimes they'll work okay, then sometimes they'll barely work, and i've purposely tried to make the brakes lock up, i stabbed the brakes really hard going downhill in the wet, and my brakes didn't even lock up... i only have rear wheel abs. i don't understand why my brakes are so weak. i've replaced the shoes, drums, pads, and rotors. haven't done anything to the calipers though, nor have i replaced the master cylinder or booster. please let me know your thoughts, any help is greatly appreciated!! and if i missed anything to find the answer please let me know.. thanks!

 

[bmerr98]

Try flushing all the old fluid out of the lines. If you have any kind of miles on it the fluid tends to get cooked after a while and Idk, wears out, for lack of a better word. I recently refreshed my brake system (new rotors and pads, flex lines, drums, shoes, wheel cylinders, and fresh fluid throughout), and the difference is tremendous. Of course, with all that it should be, but I've done just the fluid before and it made a big difference all on its own.

Go RR, LR, RF, LF just like when you bleed them. Your bleed screws may be frozen given the age of the truck...might want to have a couple on hand and think about wheel cylinders and flex lines while you're at it. All pretty inexpensive parts, and you'll know it's done.

 

[Andy D]

My guess is that the rear shoes need to be adjusted.

 

[cp2295]

So I flushed the fluid and replaced the wheel cylinders, and put it all back together and they worked great. That was 3 days ago and now today I noticed while driving they randomly started sucking again, and so I pumped the brakes, helped nothing, then I went into a parking lot and went in reverse and slammed the brakes to adjust the rear shoes, and when I slammed the brakes while reversing they worked really well, and also for a few blocks while going forward.. But I noticed they started getting worse again.. Is the adjuster screwed? Why would they work in reverse really well and not while going forward?

 

[1994Ranger$$$pit]

Your front brakes are most of your braking power in most vehicles, because the front wheels load up under braking and have a lot more traction.
I just did the drum brakes in my 94 last year. I'm betting those lame cable adjusters don't last a year.
Get on some dirt and lock them up when this is going on.
See if the front and back skid,or just the rear.

There is a very good chance you might be right about the vacuum booster.

A common sign of a faulty brake booster vacuum is that your brakes will start to have a “hard pedal,” which means the brakes are stiff and hard to use and even if you pump the brakes, they don’t work properly. The brake pedal will also eventually sink to the floor because all of the vacuum in the system is gone due to the booster being bad. Check to see if the vacuum hoses have collapsed, if there is a hole in one of them.

 

[cp2295]

Your front brakes are most of your braking power in most vehicles, because the front wheels load up under braking and have a lot more traction.
I just did the drum brakes in my 94 last year. I'm betting those lame cable adjusters don't last a year.
Get on some dirt and lock them up when this is going on.
See if the front and back skid,or just the rear.

There is a very good chance you might be right about the vacuum booster.

A common sign of a faulty brake booster vacuum is that your brakes will start to have a “hard pedal,” which means the brakes are stiff and hard to use and even if you pump the brakes, they don’t work properly. The brake pedal will also eventually sink to the floor because all of the vacuum in the system is gone due to the booster being bad. Check to see if the vacuum hoses have collapsed, if there is a hole in one of them.

what hoses am i looking for? just the one from the intake to the booster or are there other vacuum lines connected to the brakes that would interrupt the boosters performance? also a side note, i plugged the vacuum lines connecting to the hubs because i replaced the auto hubs with manual hubs and it was leaking whenever 4x4 was engaged... shouldn't have any connection i dont think though..

 

[cp2295]

what hoses am i looking for? just the one from the intake to the booster or are there other vacuum lines connected to the brakes that would interrupt the boosters performance? also a side note, i plugged the vacuum lines connecting to the hubs because i replaced the auto hubs with manual hubs and it was leaking whenever 4x4 was engaged... shouldn't have any connection i dont think though..

Also i jacked the rear end up to adjust the shoes, and the little bar that engages onto the adjuster's star wheel wasn't even engaged.. and the cable that attaches it from the top of backing plate down to that bar had no tension on it.. didn't seem right, maybe the cable is stretched out and letting the adjuster spin freely making it so it's not engaging the shoes on the drums all the way??

 

[bmerr98]

Don't know all the technical names for the parts, but the half moon thing that the adjuster cable rides on (cable guide), is it mounted in the hole on the shoe, or is it only held in place by the return spring? Mine was like that, with slack in it and after I made sure the cable guide was secured in the hole and then held in place by the return spring, I got my light tension back.

Maybe I can get some pics on here later too, so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[cp2295]

Don't know all the technical names for the parts, but the half moon thing that the adjuster cable rides on (cable guide), is it mounted in the hole on the shoe, or is it only held in place by the return spring? Mine was like that, with slack in it and after I made sure the cable guide was secured in the hole and then held in place by the return spring, I got my light tension back.

Maybe I can get some pics on here later too, so you can see what I'm talking about.

Well the half moon thing sits in a hole on the shoe, then the yellow spring goes on top of it to hold it in place, but that spring has no effect on the tension in the cable, what spring do you have in yours that keeps tension in that cable?

 

[bmerr98]

Well the half moon thing sits in a hole on the shoe, then the yellow spring goes on top of it to hold it in place, but that spring has no effect on the tension in the cable, what spring do you have in yours that keeps tension in that cable?

Sorry to leave you hanging! No extra springs for tension. The cable guide being in the hole in the shoe keeps tension. If it's just hanging on the return spring but not in its hole you won't have tension. The spring at the end of the cable hooks to the adjusting pawl doesn't stretch enough to keep tension unless the cable guide is in the hole on the shoe.

 

[cp2295]

Sorry to leave you hanging! No extra springs for tension. The cable guide being in the hole in the shoe keeps tension. If it's just hanging on the return spring but not in its hole you won't have tension. The spring at the end of the cable hooks to the adjusting pawl doesn't stretch enough to keep tension unless the cable guide is in the hole on the shoe.

Sorry I'm very confused.. The cable is on the half moon thing all lined up but that cable has no tension, and it's all lined up like it should be.. Is there anything I'm doing wrong?

 

[bmerr98]

Pics finally!

I hope you've already got your brake problem solved, and I apologize for being so long in getting back, but in case you haven't, here are some pics so we don't have to make up names for parts

When the cable guide is seated properly in the brake shoe frame it should look like this:
View attachment 12159

The adjusting pawl should line up like this:
View attachment 12160

When the cable guide is not seated properly and is just hanging on the return spring it'll look like this:
View attachment 12157

And the adjusting pawl will hang low like this:
View attachment 12158

Again, sorry for the delay. You probably had this figured out by now anyway, but maybe it'll help someone else.

 

[cp2295]

I hope you've already got your brake problem solved, and I apologize for being so long in getting back, but in case you haven't, here are some pics so we don't have to make up names for parts

When the cable guide is seated properly in the brake shoe frame it should look like this:
View attachment 12159

The adjusting pawl should line up like this:
View attachment 12160

When the cable guide is not seated properly and is just hanging on the return spring it'll look like this:
View attachment 12157

And the adjusting pawl will hang low like this:
View attachment 12158

Again, sorry for the delay. You probably had this figured out by now anyway, but maybe it'll help someone else.

actually I haven't touched it.. Thank you very much! I don't understand quite though when the cable is seated right, my cable is seated wrong like how your picture shown but how do I put the cable in right? What am I doing wrong? Thanks again!

 

[cp2295]

And it's np �� it's not being too big of an issue now, although I have to set the brakes sometimes (going in reverse and slamming the brakes).. More often than I should need to

 

[bmerr98]

The only other thing I can think of regarding the cable/cable guide/adjusting pawl is the way the lower part of the cable attaches to the adjusting pawl. It should be like this:

View attachment 12175

If you can believe it, that can be attached wrong (done it), the result being the adjusting pawl being pulled up too high to touch the teeth on the wheel. No pics of that little arrangement, but you can probably imagine...

So, if the cable guide is not seated properly, the pawl will hang low.

View attachment 12157
View attachment 12158

If the lower cable is not attached to the pawl properly (90 degrees out), the pawl will be pulled too high.

If the cable guide is seated in the hole properly and the lower end of the cable is attached to the pawl correctly, the pawl should contact the teeth on the wheel and adjust periodically as you drive.

View attachment 12176
View attachment 12175

It only took us three weeks, but hopefully you have what you need to fix your brakes.