87 Ranger Rear Pinon Nut Size??

[aipaul]

Where did you get your specs from? 30 in. lbs. is way too much preload for a used bearing and even on the high side for a new bearing. Used should be 8-14 and new should be 16-29.

IMO anything less than 50 in-lbs is good enough. You are actually supposed to use the torque wrench to measure the torque it takes to rotate the pinion before taking it off and then tighten it back to that numbers. You are right about the 16-29 in-lbs for new bearings but the torque wrench I used was too crappy to measure this. Each line is 50 in-lbs so I just tried to keep it less than this. I've read that the so called "crush sleeve" in Ford rear ends is nothing of the kind. It's really just a thick copper washer that hardly crushes at all. Just don't tighten it enough to f*ckup the bearings. It's sort of like tightening wheel bearings. You want it to tighten enough for it too spin freely but not loose enough to wiggle.

I think the nut is crimped at the factory after it is tightened. I believe a new nut is not crimped.

 

[aipaul]

If you're using the existing crush sleeve, your goal is not to crush the sleeve at all, as it's already crushed to spec for the gears. If you torque the nut to 200 ft. lbs. the sleeve should remain as-is.

If you are setting up the preload for the first time with a new sleeve, you're right; there is no way to put a number on the amount of torque. You keep cranking the nut down until the preload is in spec.

200 ft. lbs is way too much! We're talking in. lbs here.

 

[Evan]

200 ft. lbs is way too much! We're talking in. lbs here.

You misunderstood my post(s). 200 ft. lbs is the spec for the torque on the pinion locknut when you're tightening it down with an existing crush sleeve.

That's different than the bearing preload, which should be measured with in. lbs. as you said.

 

[bottledgt]

IMO anything less than 50 in-lbs is good enough. You are actually supposed to use the torque wrench to measure the torque it takes to rotate the pinion before taking it off and then tighten it back to that numbers. You are right about the 16-29 in-lbs for new bearings but the torque wrench I used was too crappy to measure this. Each line is 50 in-lbs so I just tried to keep it less than this. I've read that the so called "crush sleeve" in Ford rear ends is nothing of the kind. It's really just a thick copper washer that hardly crushes at all. Just don't tighten it enough to f*ckup the bearings. It's sort of like tightening wheel bearings. You want it to tighten enough for it too spin freely but not loose enough to wiggle.

I think the nut is crimped at the factory after it is tightened. I believe a new nut is not crimped.

sorry dude but you are all kinds of wrong on everything youve said. whatever you are reading,go and start a fire with it before you read any more.there are no copper washers ,no post crimped nuts,and no torque wrenchs that go in 50 inlb increments

 

[aipaul]

sorry dude but you are all kinds of wrong on everything youve said. whatever you are reading,go and start a fire with it before you read any more.there are no copper washers ,no post crimped nuts,and no torque wrenchs that go in 50 inlb increments

Hey I'm just trying to help. The wrench I used is in 50 in lbs increments. That's why I said it was crappy, made in China. It measures from 0 to 800 in lbs, too crude to measure for this job really but I used it. Ideally you would want to use something that measures 0 to 80 in lbs. I read you can get a wrench like this from a bike shop.


The washer I'm talking about is spacer 4662 in this drawing. I guess you could call it a washer. I read in another forum that it really doesn't crush down much at all but that's what I read.

This is what I read in another forum:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/388383-rear-axle-pinion-seal-replacement.html

You can probably manage this yourself. You don't need a 200 fl/lb torque wrench, in fact, you need a small inch/lb wrench to determine the pinion bearing pre-load. You will have to fabricate a simple drilled bar to hold the pinion flange during removal/installation and you will need the longest 1/2 breaker bar you can find -24 inches works fine. In a nutshell, remove the companion flange, pry out the old seal, replace with new and retorque the pinion nut SLOWLY, SLOWLY, SLOWLY until you reach the specified pinion bearing pre-load. You tighten then test the turning resistance with the inch/lb torque wrench. CAUTION! Don't go by the bench test values - those are for a dissembled unit - i.e. no axles/wheels/etc included. There is a separate value for the on-the-vehicle test. I don't have my manuals with me as I write this, but I seem to recall the on-the-vehicle number was somewhere around 25-30 in/lbs of torque as compared to 10-15 in/lb for the bench test. It is easy to overshoot the mark when you are grunting away with that big breaker bar. It will seem like forever to get to 20 in/lb then the next pull sends it way over the mark.

There is a lot of hoop-te-do made about that crush washer when in fact, most shops just reuse the old one. When I rebuilt mine, I measured the new crush washer against the old and found something like 0.003 difference - so they really do not "crush" down as the name implies. It is merely a heavy duty spacer between the the pinion nut and bearing. Neither of the local Ford dealer parts counter even had one in stock. They were a special order item which seems rather odd for this common repair procedure. (Draw your own conclusions on this.)

And finally my nut was crimped at the top. It was like squeezed to keep it from loosening. I don't know if they all like that but I can only recommend using a new nut.

 

[bottledgt]

yes the nuts are made like that. it serves a purpose so the nut doesnt back off. do not grind that off. and yes that is the crush sleeve. and yes it does crush a fair amount. .003 is not even close to right. that guy is a retard.and you cannot go by the turning torque unless you only have the pinion installed. if you have ring gear or anything else installed, you are kidding yourself

 

[aipaul]

yes the nuts are made like that. it serves a purpose so the nut doesnt back off. do not grind that off. and yes that is the crush sleeve. and yes it does crush a fair amount. .003 is not even close to right. that guy is a retard.

So now you suddenly agree the nuts "are made like that". So tell how are you supposed to accurately torque them if they are crimped like that? I'm sure a new nut is not crimped and I said you should use a new nut. BTW I was worried about the nut backing out so I've been checking and so far no sign of it doing so. Locktite may be a good idea with a new nut.

 

[bottledgt]

JESUS CHRIST...when did i say they werent like that? YOU DO NOT TORQUE THE NUT. THROW TORQUE WRENCH AWAY AND USE A STRONG ARM. IT HAS NO USE HERE. i guess out of the 200 + nuts ive put on they got magically crimped by dropping them.and new nuts have locktite on them too. you notice that red stuff on it? that aint paint

 

[Evan]

if you have ring gear or anything else installed, you are kidding yourself

I would think that anyone with any mechanical experience at all knows that.

 

[bottledgt]

I would think that anyone with any mechanical experience at all knows that.

you're right, but apparently he doesnt cause he said he changed the seal and used an inch lb wrench to check it. so...yeah

 

[aipaul]

[/QUOTE]

JESUS CHRIST...when did i say they werent like that? YOU DO NOT TORQUE THE NUT. THROW TORQUE WRENCH AWAY AND USE A STRONG ARM. IT HAS NO USE HERE. i guess out of the 200 + nuts ive put on they got magically crimped by dropping them.and new nuts have locktite on them too. you notice that red stuff on it? that aint paint

So you are saying the instructions to use an in-lb torque wrench are all wrong? 29 in-lbs is just a little over finger tight. You can't do that with the nut crimped. And yes I did notice the red locktite. I read this and it said to use an in-lb torque wrench.

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0b/b0/1c/0900823d800bb01c/repairInfoPages.htm

Pinion Oil Seal
Ford Ranger/Explorer/Mountaineer 1991-1999





REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

See Figures 1 and 2

Disconnect the negative battery cable.

Raise and support the vehicle safely. Allow the axle to drop to rebound position for working clearance.

Remove the rear wheels and brake drums. No drag must be present on the axle.

Mark the companion flanges and U-joints for correct reinstallation position.

Remove the driveshaft.


Fig. 1: Use a 2-jawed puller to remove the driveshaft companion flange




Fig. 2: Remove the seal by either prying it out, or grasping the lip edge with locking pliers and tapping it out of the housing



Using an inch pound torque wrench and socket on the pinion yoke nut measure the amount of torque needed to maintain differential rotation through several clockwise revolutions. Record the measurement.

Use a suitable tool to hold the companion flange. Remove the pinion nut.

Place a drain pan under the differential. Clean the area around the seal and mark the yoke-to-pinion relation.

Use a 2-jawed puller to remove the companion flange.

Remove the seal with a small prybar and/or locking pliers and hammer.

To install:

Thoroughly clean the oil seal bore.

If you are not absolutely certain of the proper seal installation depth, the proper seal driver must be used. If the seal is misaligned or damaged during installation, it must be removed and a new seal installed.

Drive the new seal into place with a seal driver such as T83T-4676-A. Coat the seal lip with clean, waterproof wheel bearing grease.

Coat the splines with a small amount of wheel bearing grease and install the yoke, aligning the matchmarks. Never hammer the yoke onto the pinion!

Install a new nut on the pinion.

Hold the yoke with a holding tool. Tighten the pinion nut, taking frequent turning torque readings until the original preload reading is attained. If the original preload reading, that you noted before disassembly, is lower than the specified reading of 8-14 inch lbs. for used bearings; 16-29 inch lbs. for new bearings, keep tightening the pinion nut until the specified reading is reached. If the original preload reading is higher than the specified values, torque the nut just until the original reading is reached.


WARNING

Under no circumstances should the nut be backed off to reduce the preload reading! If the preload is exceeded, the yoke and bearing must be removed and a new collapsible spacer must be installed. The entire process of preload adjustment must be repeated.



Install the driveshaft using the matchmarks. Torque the nuts to 15 ft. lbs.

Lower the vehicle.

Reconnect the negative battery cable.

 

[aipaul]

I also should add that a beam type torque wrench must be used. A clicker type will not work for this job.

 

[aipaul]

okay this is where I got most of my info, from a ford explorer forum.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204477

Originally Posted by 05warrior
1. First of all, whats the size of the pinion nut. I have individual sizes to fit all front end bolts and hub nuts on Mustangs and Explorers, but I'm not rich enough to have a full set above 18mm and 3/4.

1 1/16"


Quote:
2. Secondly, I know I need to get the free spin torque on that nut as a baseline for my preload. I don't have a dial-type torque wrench. I have a big twist-type clicker wrench. Theoretically I can use that; just adjust until it clicks and the diff spins at the same time, (tires off the ground, obviously) but is this such a close measurement that I need the exact inch/lbs? Or, does someone know the preload so I don't even have to do that.

You can not use a clicker wrench to set the torque! It will not work. You need a beam type torque wrench that measures in-lb. New bearing preload should be around 18-29 in-lb, above that and you will need a new crush sleeve and start over. I use a Park tools torque wrench which is from a bike shop. If you have a performance Bike shop near you, you can get one there. I ordered it off their website. Also the carrier needs to be removed, you are only setting the pinion preload. Setting it with the diff in will give a false reading since it has that extra drag.




Quote:
3. Obviously, I haven't taken it off yet. So the rest of the query is going I how I assume it will go. Pull the pinion nut, pop the flange off, pry the seal out. I think theres a slinger in there, that would probably be next. Then the bearings. I don't know how they look, but I've replaced a lot of wheel bearings, so it can't be that different. I know I have an inner and outer bearing set, each with its own cup. Now... question - can I get to the rear (larger) bearing set from the front of the diff, or do I have to look at pulling out the ring and pinion gear (which I won't do...)

Again, you have to pull the carrier out and then hammer the pinion out to get the inner bearing as well as replace the inner race in the housing. You will also need a press and a large bearing splitter to get it off easily.


Quote:
4. Let's assume I can get to both sets of bearings, even though since they're opposed, I'm pretty sure I can't from the front. Pull them, pack new ones, and seat them. Now the real important questions I guess. How do I properly apply the aforementioned preload on these new bearings. I know it would be different than used. Put both wheels up again, turn it till they spin, then drop them and torque it to 160? I'm a little confused. I don't want to crush the crush sleeve, and I don't have a replacement and don't think I need one. As far as I know, I can't get it from my parts store down the street.

this video has a good visual explanation- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APYO2sZyJU

I just regeared my 8.8 in my garage and it is not a job for the average DIY'er abd even doing just new pinion bearings takes a few tools not everyone has. Now if you were to just replace the seal it is alot easier and not nearly as involved.

 

[aipaul]

So who is right and wrong here? I really would like to know for my truck's sake. Everything I read said to use an in-lb torque wrench to put the pinion nut back on.

 

[Evan]

So who is right and wrong here? I really would like to know for my truck's sake. Everything I read said to use an in-lb torque wrench to put the pinion nut back on.

Well, it definitely wouldn't hurt to double-check the preload with an in. lb. wrench, if you doubt Chilton's 200 ft. lb. spec on the nut with an existing sleeve.

So you would want to get a breaker bar and a socket, and an in. lb. wrench. Remove the carrier from the diff, keeping the caps and shims on their respective sides. Smear some additional red Locktite on the nut and thread it on. Start cranking it down, checking the gear for play as you go. You'll need to find a way to hold the flange so it does not turn. Once the play is gone, make only slow turns and frequently check the preload on the bearing by putting your socket on the in. lb. wrench and trying to turn the pinion gear with it free. Once you get to around 15 in. lbs. stop cranking the locknut down.

I personally would also get a torque wrench and verify that the nut is on with at least 180 ft. lbs. of torque. If it's less than that it's in danger of working loose. Say you got to 15 in. lbs. of preload but you only had the nut torqued down to 10 ft. lbs. This would signify a problem with your crush sleeve and you'd want to get a new one. Then with the new one you would follow the same proceedure above, but you don't need to worry about the torque on the nut as you know you had to apply over 200 ft. lbs. just to crush the sleeve.