4R44E Bump/Jolt during Upshift 1998 2.5 L

[sahasranshu]

Hi All,
I got my first truck a 1998 Ranger XLT 2.5L RWD last month with 93K miles one owner. From 1998 to 2016 the Vehicle was driven 86K miles and then in the last 8 years it wasn't driven much and lying on their yard as the owner passed away.

I have once drained and refilled the trans fluid and changed trans filter, but I still have one concern with the transmission shift, and I am seeking help from members.

Symptom 1 - I always feel a mild bump/jolt during upshift from 1-2 and 2-3. Similar to the feeling if you were driving a manual trans and sudden release the clutch after upshifting.
I noted upshifts trigger at 2500-3000 RPM. After reading through different articles, I have thought of below potential solutions
a. The transmission bands could be loose/over tight and likely needs to be adjusted / retorqued.
b. Installing a trans go/superior shift improvement kit
c. Replacing the valve body with all solenoids

I just hope the clutches / torque converter is not bad as it would need a tranny rebuilt which is beyond my budget.

Symptom 2 - I always feel a jolt when I shift from P to R or D to R which I think could be due to bad transmission mount.

These are the other maintenance that I have performed after ownership which has improved the ride.

1. Replaced Engine Oil, Gear Oil on Rear Differential, Power Steering Fluid (Drained and filled with ATF)
2. Replaced EGR Tube and Valve
3. Replaced Valve Cover Gasket, PCV Valve, all 8 spark plugs & wires and cleaned throttle body/intake manifold
4. Replaced speed sensor on the rear differential and transmission filter
5. Fuel Injectors and all 4 shocks.

Lastly, So far, I have driven so far 1000 miles after the repairs and in my last trip of 300 miles to Houston (and 300 miles back) on Interstate, I got 20 MPG where I was driving 75-85 MPH.

I wonder if 20 MPG is good OR can I get better MPG by replacing fuel filter / switching to 5W-20 instead of 5W-30.

Requesting you all to please help me here.

Best Regards
Saha

 

[pentode]

With respect to the mileage, I think 20 is in the right ballpark for 75-85mph. I get about 23 at 65-70. I don't think you'd see any noticeable improvement in economy going to 5w20. I'd be surprised if it were 1mpg better.

I'll let someone who knows these transmissions answer the first part- all I can tell you is the presence of too many or not enough o rings on the trans filter will cause erratic shifting and in my experience these transmissions shift pretty firmly when they're healthy. Crisp and firm. Jolt sounds a bit on the harsh side - how bad is this jolt and are there other symptoms?

 

[sahasranshu]

With respect to the mileage, I think 20 is in the right ballpark for 75-85mph. I get about 23 at 65-70. I don't think you'd see any noticeable improvement in economy going to 5w20. I'd be surprised if it were 1mpg better.

I'll let someone who knows these transmissions answer the first part- all I can tell you is the presence of too many or not enough o rings on the trans filter will cause erratic shifting and in my experience these transmissions shift pretty firmly when they're healthy. Crisp and firm. Jolt sounds a bit on the harsh side - how bad is this jolt and are there other symptoms?

What about fuel filter though? Do they go bad with age and reduce fuel economy? Engine idles at 1000 RPM when cold and about 700 RPM when hot.

Regarding the transmission part, when I replaced the trans filter, the 2 oil rings that go on filter looked good and I re-used them.

Sorry for my little knowledge on tech jargons. When you said the trans shifts firmly even when healthy - Does it mean the mild jolts that I feel during upshifts are normal on these auto 4R transmissions?

 

[pentode]

Sorry, I must say when I answered you last night it was late and I had it in mind for some reason you had the 3.0. However, I don't think in the real world they can do more than 1-2 mpg better than my 3.0. Someone with real world numbers will eventually chime in. As far as fuel filters, air filters etc, on a fuel injected engine they're going to have less of an effect than you might think as the computer is going to try to get the fuel mixture it wants even if it means cutting back on power. On these trucks I still think the way to make the biggest difference on MPG is to drive with a light foot.

With that in mind, how hard are you hiring the throttle typically when you feel these jolts? Because you will definitely feel it shift - it's not like some silky smooth auto transmissions but it also shouldn't bang or clunk or feel like someone's kicking the back of your seat as hard as they can. But at half to full throttle you will definitely feel the shifts. Definitely could be the valve body, it's worth getting more info and opinions. FWIW when you talk about clunks shifting from drive to reverse and vice versa I always think of u-joints more than trans mounts but maybe you've checked that?

 

[97RangerXLT]

agree with Pentode on the mileage.

bumping/ hard shifting...

First thing I would do is make sure that the trans fluid level is correct. to do this you need to get the truck up to operating temp and then have a helper shift it through the gears with their foot on the brake then look at the level. If the fluid level is good, change the fluid and filter. just drop the pan, drain whats in it and put a new filter in it. don't worry about the fluid in the torque converter. fill it up and check fluid level again. it has sat for quite a while, so it may just need to be driven to get the kinks out of it. get out and drive it and enjoy it.

another thing to look at... the slip yoke in the driveshaft will probably need lubed. there should be an article in the Tech library on how to do that. again after sitting, that lubrication has probably dried out. with the low mileage, my guess is your transmission mounts are fine, but wouldn't hurt to crawl under and look at them. Also your U joints may be dried out, you may have to grease or replace those.

bottom line, if the fluid checks out, drive it a bit and see if the binding/ jumping in the driveline smooths out over time. it may be you have a finicky transmission but it will go another 150k. Had a Buick that shifted like crap the entire time I owned it, from 56k to 158k miles. changed the fluid, etc, still shifted like crap. just learned to live with it lol

AJ

 

[97RangerXLT]

Oh... do not change to 5w20 oil... that will likely not be enough viscosity to lubricate and protect your engine properly over time. Do change the fuel filter though. fairly easy job and since it sat, wouldn't hurt and is part of the normal maintenance.

if you have not done so, replace the belts and hoses. it is due, and it looks like you are in the texas area, so heat will take those out for you at an inconvenient time. Also do the timing belt.

drive it another 200k +

AJ

 

[sahasranshu]

Sorry, I must say when I answered you last night it was late and I had it in mind for some reason you had the 3.0. However, I don't think in the real world they can do more than 1-2 mpg better than my 3.0. Someone with real world numbers will eventually chime in. As far as fuel filters, air filters etc, on a fuel injected engine they're going to have less of an effect than you might think as the computer is going to try to get the fuel mixture it wants even if it means cutting back on power. On these trucks I still think the way to make the biggest difference on MPG is to drive with a light foot.

With that in mind, how hard are you hiring the throttle typically when you feel these jolts? Because you will definitely feel it shift - it's not like some silky smooth auto transmissions but it also shouldn't bang or clunk or feel like someone's kicking the back of your seat as hard as they can. But at half to full throttle you will definitely feel the shifts. Definitely could be the valve body, it's worth getting more info and opinions. FWIW when you talk about clunks shifting from drive to reverse and vice versa I always think of u-joints more than trans mounts but maybe you've checked that?

Thanks for your inputs.

Regarding the jolts that I mention, I feel a very minimal jolt when I press the gas pedal lightly for smooth acceleration whereas when I hard press the gas pedal for fast acceleration that's when I feel a mild jolt as if a kid is kicking the driver seat from behind.
I do not hear any loud clunk / thumps when these jolts are felt.

My experience of transmission shift is based a 2015 Kia Optima that I drive daily which happens to be my first vehicle. I have never driven /owned older cars / trucks before.

Based on your comments I understand that jolts/bump that I feel in my truck are normal for auto transmissions from the 90s?

About the second symptom regarding P to R or D to R, I do not hear any clunk. It's just a jolt that I feel as if someone rear ended my truck while taking off at a traffic signal.

That being said I haven't checked the u-joints in my truck. Btw I am new to rear-wheel-drive vehicles. I will check the U-joints and do due diligence.

Thanks again! much appreciated.

 

[sahasranshu]

agree with Pentode on the mileage.

bumping/ hard shifting...

First thing I would do is make sure that the trans fluid level is correct. to do this you need to get the truck up to operating temp and then have a helper shift it through the gears with their foot on the brake then look at the level. If the fluid level is good, change the fluid and filter. just drop the pan, drain whats in it and put a new filter in it. don't worry about the fluid in the torque converter. fill it up and check fluid level again. it has sat for quite a while, so it may just need to be driven to get the kinks out of it. get out and drive it and enjoy it.

another thing to look at... the slip yoke in the driveshaft will probably need lubed. there should be an article in the Tech library on how to do that. again after sitting, that lubrication has probably dried out. with the low mileage, my guess is your transmission mounts are fine, but wouldn't hurt to crawl under and look at them. Also your U joints may be dried out, you may have to grease or replace those.

bottom line, if the fluid checks out, drive it a bit and see if the binding/ jumping in the driveline smooths out over time. it may be you have a finicky transmission but it will go another 150k. Had a Buick that shifted like crap the entire time I owned it, from 56k to 158k miles. changed the fluid, etc, still shifted like crap. just learned to live with it lol

AJ

When I first checked the fluid level after a short drive, the level was within the range and the fluid looked red. But as it is 25-year-old vehicle I decided to drain and fill the trans fluid. When I drained the fluid looked black. I replaced the filter and filled fresh Mercon-V fluid to the correct level.

Do you advise me to do another drain & fill to increase the life of transmission / smoother shift?

I will check the slip yoke / u joint in my truck and lubricate those. Thanks for your kind suggestions.

 

[sahasranshu]

Oh... do not change to 5w20 oil... that will likely not be enough viscosity to lubricate and protect your engine properly over time. Do change the fuel filter though. fairly easy job and since it sat, wouldn't hurt and is part of the normal maintenance.

if you have not done so, replace the belts and hoses. it is due, and it looks like you are in the texas area, so heat will take those out for you at an inconvenient time. Also do the timing belt.

drive it another 200k +

AJ

Sorry I forgot to mention. Like you said the rubber hoses were bad, I replaced the hoses also replaced the serpentine belt.

I intend to put some more miles on my truck and do the timing belt during Winter.

So far, I am enjoying driving this truck.

 

[pentode]

Thanks for your inputs.

Regarding the jolts that I mention, I feel a very minimal jolt when I press the gas pedal lightly for smooth acceleration whereas when I hard press the gas pedal for fast acceleration that's when I feel a mild jolt as if a kid is kicking the driver seat from behind.
I do not hear any loud clunk / thumps when these jolts are felt.

My experience of transmission shift is based a 2015 Kia Optima that I drive daily which happens to be my first vehicle. I have never driven /owned older cars / trucks before.

Based on your comments I understand that jolts/bump that I feel in my truck are normal for auto transmissions from the 90s?

About the second symptom regarding P to R or D to R, I do not hear any clunk. It's just a jolt that I feel as if someone rear ended my truck while taking off at a traffic signal.

That being said I haven't checked the u-joints in my truck. Btw I am new to rear-wheel-drive vehicles. I will check the U-joints and do due diligence.

Thanks again! much appreciated.

Yeah, based on your description, that sounds pretty normal. It shouldn't be violent, but child-kicking-seat seems in the ballpark. I agree with @97RangerXLT, if your fluid is full and looks pretty clean, just drive it for a while. No cause for concern at this point. If it helps, bear in mind that this is an easy transmission to find _and_ to swap out if ever the worst happened, so I wouldn't give it another thought for now.
Re: the u-joints, a quick and dirty method for "testing" those is to just lie under the truck and rotate the driveshaft back and forth as well as pushing and pulling back and forth at the front and back and feel for clunks and/or play. Might reveal more if the truck were in neutral and the wheels VERY well chocked and parking brake on, but you should feel anything serious with it in park (probably still parking brake and chocks actually
). Anything less than very loose is also not really a cause for concern. It's normal for them to clunk a little bit when the direction of rotation changes - and there are other things that might clunk a bit, gears in the differential for example. If there's obvious lateral movement of the driveshaft, that's something you'd need to deal with. However in that case you'd very likely feel a vibration coming from the drivetrain.

 

[sahasranshu]

Yeah, based on your description, that sounds pretty normal. It shouldn't be violent, but child-kicking-seat seems in the ballpark. I agree with @97RangerXLT, if your fluid is full and looks pretty clean, just drive it for a while. No cause for concern at this point. If it helps, bear in mind that this is an easy transmission to find _and_ to swap out if ever the worst happened, so I wouldn't give it another thought for now.
Re: the u-joints, a quick and dirty method for "testing" those is to just lie under the truck and rotate the driveshaft back and forth as well as pushing and pulling back and forth at the front and back and feel for clunks and/or play. Might reveal more if the truck were in neutral and the wheels VERY well chocked and parking brake on, but you should feel anything serious with it in park (probably still parking brake and chocks actually
). Anything less than very loose is also not really a cause for concern. It's normal for them to clunk a little bit when the direction of rotation changes - and there are other things that might clunk a bit, gears in the differential for example. If there's obvious lateral movement of the driveshaft, that's something you'd need to deal with. However in that case you'd very likely feel a vibration coming from the drivetrain.

That's a relief for me to hear. Not doing anything else with the tranny other than another drain & fill.
Btw I just went under the truck and tested the u joints like the way you mentioned.
Good thing is I didn't find any clunks. The driveshaft and joint seem to be holding pretty well. Also, the transmission mount looks good too.

The sad part is the ujoints in my truck isn't greaseable. So I will have to live with the way it is. I assume the jolt which I am feeling when changing R N D is likely due to the change in direction which you highlighted.

Thank you so much for your time. Drive Safe !

 

[pentode]

My u-joints have 239k on them and they're holding up fine. Yeah, greaseable would be nice but I think these are reasonably stout.
We have a 2013 Sonata in the family - not so different from your Optima I think in general. They have a lot going for them and I won't state my complaints here . But the transmissions are very smooth for sure.
Enjoy your truck!

 

[97RangerXLT]

When I first checked the fluid level after a short drive, the level was within the range and the fluid looked red. But as it is 25-year-old vehicle I decided to drain and fill the trans fluid. When I drained the fluid looked black. I replaced the filter and filled fresh Mercon-V fluid to the correct level.

Do you advise me to do another drain & fill to increase the life of transmission / smoother shift?

I will check the slip yoke / u joint in my truck and lubricate those. Thanks for your kind suggestions.

if the fluid looked red on the dipstick looked red but the drained fluid looked black, it may be because there was a lot more than what was on the dipstick so it looked darker. smell it, if it smells burnt, that is not good. if it smells like transmission fluid, I wouldn't worry too much about it. drive it a few months to get all thenew and old fluid to mix and drain and refill again. Most of all drive it and get it back into a routine. also... was there a lot of metal shavings in the pan and on the magnet? some fine shaving build up is normal, but not thick chunks or glittery looking fluid.

AJ

 

[sahasranshu]

if the fluid looked red on the dipstick looked red but the drained fluid looked black, it may be because there was a lot more than what was on the dipstick so it looked darker. smell it, if it smells burnt, that is not good. if it smells like transmission fluid, I wouldn't worry too much about it. drive it a few months to get all thenew and old fluid to mix and drain and refill again. Most of all drive it and get it back into a routine. also... was there a lot of metal shavings in the pan and on the magnet? some fine shaving build up is normal, but not thick chunks or glittery looking fluid.

AJ

There weren't much metal shavings on magnet inside the pan thankfully. I will drive for another few hundred miles and then drain & fill. Thanks for suggesting !