2004 F-150 Lariat 5.4 Triton

[alwaysFlOoReD]

A few weeks ago I overheard my boss saying he was going to sell one of the company trucks, a 2004 F-150 Lariat 5.4 Triton, to a wrecker for $500.00 to $1,000.00. I spoke up and said I would pay $1,000.00 for the truck. I figured at the least I could part it out for double what I paid. It's pretty loaded; auto, 4 doors with PW, leather PS w/heat, cruise, sun roof, buckets and console, e-4x4, good factory sound, new 18" tires. Edit; 215,000 Km

When I drove it out to my place, it fired right up with a smooth idle and took off just fine. Wow, I thought, there's nothing wrong with this truck, what a bunch of morons I'm working for!!! After traveling for about ten minutes I came to a stop and the motor was stumbling and almost dying, I had to feather the gas in order to keep it running. I guess the boss isn't such a moron after all. After doing some research I found out the 5.4 is known for the cam phasers buggering up due to lack of oil changes. It seems the oil passages are easy to plug and without regular oil changes the passages plug and the phasers don't do what they should: keep the cams in phase with speed and load. I spent a couple of days online researching and then talked to my local mechanic. He said that if I didn't have bad oil pressure that it is feasible to repair the phasers, cost ~$2,500.00 parts and labor. With bad pressure, the option is replace the motor, either with rebuilt or from a wreck. Cost with motor from wreck; ~$6,000.00 includes parts and labor. A shock to me was the 24 hour time span it takes to r+r the motor, the engineers must have been having crack withdrawals. Anyways, I drained a liter of oil and replaced it with trans fluid. I ran it like that four or five time over the course of a couple of weeks, putting on about 10 kilometers. I then decided to add a manual oil pressure gauge teed off the stock sensor;

I flipped the rubber cup holder upside down, it was the only place I could find to hold the 2 1/2" diameter gauge;

What a pain in the wrist it was to tee off the motor, I wish I had another joint between my wrist and elbow.
After draining the oil, which had a total of about 100 kilometers on the last oil change that the company did, it looked a little dirty. It looked like it had copper pearl added to it, I hope its not worn too much inside. The recommended oil is 5w/20. In my research, it was suggested a quick fix was to go to a heavier oil, so I decided to mix 0w/30 and 15w/40 half and half to make 7.5w/35. It seems to be working!!! Cold idle was 72 psi, warm idle dropped to 60 psi. After running hard for 5 or 10 minutes the in gear idle pressure was 23 psi and in park idle was 30 psi. In gear at 1000 rpm and higher the pressure was @ 55 to 60 psi. The truck seemed to run smooth the whole time, other than a tick similar to a 2.9 or 4.0 lifter tick. Maybe the thicker oil is preventing enough oil from reaching the upper parts of the motor, but I don't have a clue. Can anyone shed some light on this? Anyone with experience with what I'm attempting please speak up.
Thanks,

Richard

 

[Ozwynn]

if what you are doing is working then way are you asking if it works?

if they went long on the oil changes then the motor will tick for a while until you got the sludge cleaned out and can switch back to the proper oil.

thinking of that I need to change the oil in my Lincoln.

if you decide to part it out.... I want the center console and shifter/associated parts.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

We have found that the gasket behind the chain tensioners blow out on these causing the low oil pressure issue. Anything lower than 25 psi hot at idle is no good according to ford.

 

[5speedin2.3]

Buy some cheap oil and a good filter. (purolator or motorcraft).
Add a half can, or the entire can of seafoam in to the oil (if you feel brave).
Drive it for a week or so, then enjoy the filth that comes out.

Probably wouldn't hurt to seafoam the upper half of the engine (brake booster hose) and the fuel system (add it to the fuel). The can has instructions on it.
Google also has lots of info on how to do it.

If you can't tell. Seafoam is awesome, I've used it in just about everything I drive/ride.

It looks like this.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

We have found that the gasket behind the chain tensioners blow out on these causing the low oil pressure issue.

That is what I have heard too, the later variable cam timing engines (like the 5.0) have the surfaces machined nicer, do away with the gasket and get along a lot better.

I have heard of people plugging them up running the oil way too long too, I think the last one my brother had to deal with was an '09 with 20k on a change of Amsoil... the guy got really mad because they changed his "good" oil for Motorcraft.

It is a nice looking truck, well worth a grand... heck I bet the tires were worth more than grand

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

if what you are doing is working then way are you asking if it works?

if they went long on the oil changes then the motor will tick for a while until you got the sludge cleaned out and can switch back to the proper oil.

I'm wondering if what I'm doing could cause more problems re; higher oil pressure where the system doesn't read. I don't know how these oiling systems work, so was wondering if this is a feasible fix long term.

We have found that the gasket behind the chain tensioners blow out on these causing the low oil pressure issue. Anything lower than 25 psi hot at idle is no good according to ford.

So does this mean that I should replace that gasket? Is this something I can do with the engine in vehicle? I did not notice any gasket particles in the oil but DID see what looks like signs of bushing/bearings. That was what I meant by 'copper pearl' added to the oil.

Buy some cheap oil and a good filter. (purolator or motorcraft).
Add a half can, or the entire can of seafoam in to the oil (if you feel brave).
Drive it for a week or so, then enjoy the filth that comes out.

Probably wouldn't hurt to seafoam the upper half of the engine (brake booster hose) and the fuel system (add it to the fuel). The can has instructions on it.
Google also has lots of info on how to do it.

If you can't tell. Seafoam is awesome, I've used it in just about everything I drive/ride.

It looks like this.

Thanks for the input. Trans fluid IS old school sea-foam, it cleans out the crud.

That is what I have heard too, the later variable cam timing engines (like the 5.0) have the surfaces machined nicer, do away with the gasket and get along a lot better.

I have heard of people plugging them up running the oil way too long too, I think the last one my brother had to deal with was an '09 with 20k on a change of Amsoil... the guy got really mad because they changed his "good" oil for Motorcraft.

It is a nice looking truck, well worth a grand... heck I bet the tires were worth more than grand

Yeah, however this turns out, I won't lose.

I forgot to mention in my first post, the truck has 215,000 KM, 150,000 miles.
Thanks for the responses, I'll keep this thread updated.

Richard

 

[stegomon]

get an engine from a local salvage yard and stick it in your truck....nice truck for $1500 and a weekends work

 

[Ozwynn]

^^ this

unless you really want to part it out because I really need the center console to have a console shifter for my '96.........

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I'm wondering if what I'm doing could cause more problems re; higher oil pressure where the system doesn't read. I don't know how these oiling systems work, so was wondering if this is a feasible fix long term.

No, the tensioners take a beating with anything other than 5w-20.

get an engine from a local salvage yard and stick it in your truck....nice truck for $1500 and a weekends work

Pointless if it just needs phasers, and the JY engine will probably need phasers too.

 

[Ozwynn]

No, the tensioners take a beating with anything other than 5w-20.



Pointless if it just needs phasers, and the JY engine will probably need phasers too.

yeah ..... but he also thinks the bearings are shot.....

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

yeah ..... but he also thinks the bearings are shot.....

Getting pretty good oil pressure if the bearings are shot...

 

[Ozwynn]

I agree ....... bearings aren't bad until the rods knock AFIAC...... but .....

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

So does this mean that I should replace that gasket? Is this something I can do with the engine in vehicle? I did not notice any gasket particles in the oil but DID see what looks like signs of bushing/bearings. That was what I meant by 'copper pearl' added to the oil.



Richard

The accessories and the front cover need to come off. The 'gasket' is part of the tensioners. More like anaerobic sealer. We find a small spot blown out on them usually causing the low oil pressure.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I'm pretty sure that I won't lose on this truck.
I've gone through the receipts that came with the truck, from 116,000 Km to present @ 215,000 Km. The rear diff was rebuilt @ 180,000 Km 3.73 gears, auburn limited slip. The spark plugs were changed and the fuel system gone thru @ 185,000 Km. Actuators [4x4?] and front bearings @ 202,000 Km. It seems there was regular oil changes ~ 5000 Km. The last receipt is for diagnosis; code p022 - cam position timing over retarded bank 2, may need t/chain, belt, variable cam timing actuators, and chain guide. And garage replaced oil sending unit and bank 2 variable cam timing solenoid at that time.
I pulled the codes [unsure of procedure but wth, I gots to lern sometime lol] and got these the first time;
p0134 o2 sensor circuit no activity detected bank 1 sensor 1..... is this indicating the first o2 isn't working or maybe the wires are dislodged?
p0171 and p0174 system too lean banks 1 and 2.... maybe has something to do with 1st code?
After fiddling with reader I pulled another code;
p0022 a camshaft position timing over-retarded bank 2..... the same as the garage pulled.
I don't have enough experience for diagnosing the problem, I'm a 50 year old playing with cars and maybe learning something along the way. I will buy the manuals needed and if someone is kind enough to give directions, I can and will fix the problem, I don't give up easily. I once pulled the ac from a '91 ranger without letting any gas escape because I was told it couldn't be done, tho it did take me quite some time....and it never got put back in.
After putting in the a fore mentioned 7.5w/35 oil I went for a 100 Km drive and the truck ran great until coming to a stop in gear. Oil pressure was @ 55-60 psi at cruising speed of 110 Km/h, 1800 rpm, not fluctuating except in relation to rpm. At a stop oil was @ 20-23 psi, 500-650 rpm. Rough running was experienced when oil dipped below 23 psi and idle dropped rpm in relation. Feather the gas and idle smoothed out. Turned around and drove back no problems, gas mileage indicator showed an average of 15.2 L/100Km over the whole trip. No codes came up after the trip. There are no problems experienced until an extended driving time.
I'm inclined to do as berry1234 suggested; de-sludge the engine for 1000 Kms and next oil change I'll use 15w/40 as I happen to have some synthetic of that grade I picked up for cheap. When I ran 5w/20 the motor ran like crap warmed up at an idle, I didn't have a oil pressure gauge installed at the time.
OTOH it may be best to tear into the front of the motor and fix the possible blown chain tensioner 'gasket' as suggested by Sasquatch_Ryda. Can anyone give me an estimate of time and parts needed for this?

Thanks,

Richard

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

To me it sounds like the thicker oil doesn't leak out of the actuators as fast as the correct oil.

Kinda depends on if you want you want it to run smooth until you hose the whole engine with too heavy of oil in it or if you want to get dirty and fix the problem.

Unless you do it all day every day time is going to vary wildly depending on your skill, tool collection and dumb luck.