2.9 Build info

[jaymegriffiths]

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/PlenumSpacers.html
does anyone know anything about these? I'd like to make one but i wanted to ask a question. can you still get "phelonic" and does this gasket you make replace the one you take out? or do you still need a upper plenum gasket to the lower intake? also, Isn't this basically a home brewed throttle bady spacer for 2.9's?

 

[RustedRanger]

Phenolic is a resin or "plastic" material. I don't know where to get it but you could probably find some on the net. If you use spacers you will need two gaskets,one for either side of the spacer. I don't know but you would probably need longer bolts also. Sounds like a big pain in the butt for a little gain.

 

[AllanD]

The point isn't about being a spacer for the purpose of space
or increasing internal volume.

It's ENTIRELY about thermally isolating the ideally cool intake manifold
from the lower intake.

Reality is that while the engine is running at any level above idle the air
passing through it keeps it cool.
when the manifold gets hot is when the engine is shut off for any
length of time and thermal conduction is allowed to proceed without
and airflow.

IT takes some time after the engine is restarted to cool the intake back down.

Frankly, there are good reasons why the Mfg's have adopted plastic intake manifolds.
they can be made very precisely, incredibly smooth inside and have essentially NO thermal conductivity and a trivial thermal mass.

AD

 

[jaymegriffiths]

The point isn't about being a spacer for the purpose of space
or increasing internal volume.

It's ENTIRELY about thermally isolating the ideally cool intake manifold
from the lower intake.

Reality is that while the engine is running at any level above idle the air
passing through it keeps it cool.
when the manifold gets hot is when the engine is shut off for any
length of time and thermal conduction is allowed to proceed without
and airflow.

IT takes some time after the engine is restarted to cool the intake back down.

Frankly, there are good reasons why the Mfg's have adopted plastic intake manifolds.
they can be made very precisely, incredibly smooth inside and have essentially NO thermal conductivity and a trivial thermal mass.

AD

are you just answering my question "is it kinda like a throttle body spacer"?

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Ok did a little research. phenolic spacers are made of phenolic resin, a plastic paper compound which hardens with heat. its coated in resin and is used to seperate the upper intake from the toasty one below. now my question is, does engine coolant flow through the upper half of the intake? cause if it does i've been told its a pointless upgrade. would this phenolic resin stuff work as a spacer between a carborater and intake on a v8?cause if i wanted to build a 302 up maybe this could be included in the build..

 

[AllanD]

Phenolic resin madew with paper would be "paper phenolic" and nobody
would use it for an engine spacer. It's unstable in thicknesses greater
than 3/32" or so.

what would be used is Linen-Phenolic or Glass phenolic
which closely resembles "fiberglass" though fiberglass is
typically made with polyester resin instead of phenolic resin.

what's the difference? Phenolic is used for things that'll operate at
temps too high for polyester resin.

the commonest use for Paper phenolic is for circuit boards in
cheap electronic devices.

the various phenolic materials are stiff enough to be cut to desired shapes
when the production quantities don't justify moulding the item out of
temperature resistant thermoplastic.

Phenolic carb spacers and such are made of linen phenolic.

It is the material of choice... I have a couple chunks of 1/2 and 3/4" thick phenolic
because I used to use it as rubbing blocks to protect suspension pivots on my
blindingly fast import (NOT japanese.)

I also had some made of titanium for when I wanted to show off....

AD

AD

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Phenolic resin madew with paper would be "paper phenolic" and nobody
would use it for an engine spacer. It's unstable in thicknesses greater
than 3/32" or so.

what would be used is Linen-Phenolic or Glass phenolic
which closely resembles "fiberglass" though fiberglass is
typically made with polyester resin instead of phenolic resin.

what's the difference? Phenolic is used for things that'll operate at
temps too high for polyester resin.

the commonest use for Paper phenolic is for circuit boards in
cheap electronic devices.

the various phenolic materials are stiff enough to be cut to desired shapes
when the production quantities don't justify moulding the item out of
temperature resistant thermoplastic.

Phenolic carb spacers and such are made of linen phenolic.

It is the material of choice... I have a couple chunks of 1/2 and 3/4" thick phenolic
because I used to use it as rubbing blocks to protect suspension pivots on my
blindingly fast import (NOT japanese.)

I also had some made of titanium for when I wanted to show off....

AD

AD

OK! great! one last thing, where do i get it and about how much does it cost?

 

[HndMeDnBroncoII]

Target sells them $1 per linear foot,in the BBQ section!

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Target sells them $1 per linear foot,in the BBQ section!

oh sweet. is there a special treatment for when you put them in? cause i read you have to preheat them or something...(so they cure properly or something)
and unfortunately i live in canada so no targets but ill check at some retail stores like canadian tire or walmart...

 

[AllanD]

If I needed some I'd go looking at an industrial plastics supply house.

AD

 

[HndMeDnBroncoII]

canadian tire has them and while you are there pick up some intake glue for like ten bucks get the green bottle cheers

 

[jaymegriffiths]

canadian tire has them and while you are there pick up some intake glue for like ten bucks get the green bottle cheers

Intake glue? and in what section would it be? how do you know can tire has it? I work there, never seen it...

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Phenolic resin madew with paper would be "paper phenolic" and nobody
would use it for an engine spacer. It's unstable in thicknesses greater
than 3/32" or so.

what would be used is Linen-Phenolic or Glass phenolic
which closely resembles "fiberglass" though fiberglass is
typically made with polyester resin instead of phenolic resin.

what's the difference? Phenolic is used for things that'll operate at
temps too high for polyester resin.

the commonest use for Paper phenolic is for circuit boards in
cheap electronic devices.

the various phenolic materials are stiff enough to be cut to desired shapes
when the production quantities don't justify moulding the item out of
temperature resistant thermoplastic.

Phenolic carb spacers and such are made of linen phenolic.

It is the material of choice... I have a couple chunks of 1/2 and 3/4" thick phenolic
because I used to use it as rubbing blocks to protect suspension pivots on my
blindingly fast import (NOT japanese.)

I also had some made of titanium for when I wanted to show off....

AD

AD

i think i owe you an apology good sir! when i first joined this site i had what many refer to as "internet balls" i cared not what was said and life went on. but i;ve learned there are some very helpful resources here, all offered free, to all who can be civilized and enjoy the benefits of this fantastic community of ranger lovers everywhere. so to you i say cheers, and thanks for all your helpful advice, let it not go unnoticed that alan d is a great help and a selfless tech adviser worthy of only the highest thanks i have to offer. i appreciate your help and look forward to oneday meeting you and other trs members and diehard fans of ford. i know ill always be one!

 

[HndMeDnBroncoII]

its nice to see such an acknowledgement.and on that note there is no such thing as intake glue lol