2.3L ('83-'97) 1997 xlt 2.3 L manual No Start, No Crank, Single Click, All Power goes out

[3rdCoastRanger]

I am hoping someone has some experience with this issue and can help. It has been a challenging issue.

Several months ago I was having intermittent starting issues. After reading the forums here (and doing various test) I suspected the Ignition Switch. I changed that out and the truck started up just fine for several months. I began to have intermittent starting issues again, but they were different. No crank, dome light would go out, the door buzzer would go weak, then it would start a short time later. This happened for about 2-3 starts. From that time onward I get a Single Click, No Crank and all power goes out (no dome lights, radio, exterior lights, buzzers, no nothing). Sometimes a few hours later but more often a day or so later, if I open the truck door, the dome light will go on (i.e. the electrical is back) but same start issue single click, no crank, all power goes out. On occasion it seems like the power does not come back on and the battery drains, but not always.

I HAVE replaced the battery and had it tested (before and after having it in the vehicle and getting the same no-crank, one click, power goes out situation). Battery delivers 12.89 V with a measure Cold Cranking Amps of 919 (rated at 750) per the tests.

I HAVE replaced the fender mounted starter relay. I have NOT replaced any of the square multi-function relays in the engine bay fuse box because I don't know which ones are in the starter circuit (if any) and I don't know how to test them.

I have checked all the fuses in the starter circuit and all appear to be good. If there is something specific here that I may have overlooked, please let me know.

I have NOT replaced the clutch safety switch, although have been thinking about it. Is this an appropriate next step?

When I test with my multi-meter I get 12.7+ volts between the battery negative and the lower (battery) bolt on the fender mounted starter relay. After a no-start, no crank, one click, and the power goes out I also have 12.7 or so V on the upper (starter?) bold of the fender mounted starter relay. It seems to me that before I try to start and get the no-start the upper bolt does not register any voltage (or negligible). Any specific diagnostics I should/can do with a multi-meter on the starter relay?

I inspected the starter motor and solenoid. It was old a nasty looking. It also had a lot of corrosion on the connections (especially the spade connection (which pulled off too easily). So I replaced the starter+solenoid with high hopes. No luck. Same issue. loud single click, no crank, no start, all power goes out.

I looked everywhere for an ignition control module, but didn't find one... then read an article describing the change in 1995 to the 104-wire EEC-V computer, which (according to that writer) has an internal spark module. So, according to this article the 1997 2.3 L does not have an ICM.

What are the right tests to do next? I appreciate any help and advice on this.

Thank you.

 

[RobbieD]

Battery cables.

Go over both the grounding cable and the positive cable, battery to relay first, then the relay to starter. Look closely for exposed green corrosion, and listen closely, and feel, as you flex the cables for "crunchiness".

You have the classic description of a rotted, or failed main cable. A failing cable, as a current conductor, is heating up and shutting down till it get cool again.

And don't be fooled; a cable can look perfect from the outside, but be as rotten as step child on the inside. That's where listening and feeling comes in.

Sounds like you've looked at everything except the cables.

 

[SenorNoob]

Definitely battery cables or one the connectors along the way. It doesn't take much corrosion to stop the starter from working.

 

[3rdCoastRanger]

Thank you, RobbieD (and Toonces, who I am assuming is the cat that is driving) for the advice on what to do next and the very clear instructions on how to check the cables. I will do that check -- likely next weekend as I will be working late this week -- and let you know what I find.

One follow-up question... my cables are all still wrapped in the original corrugated plastic conduit. I am assuming I will have to remove the conduit to evaluate the cables as you described. Once I am done -- and have either replaced the cable or not depending on what I find -- is it advisable to replace the conduit with new, or just use ties to bundle the cables back together and support them.

And also thanks to SenorNoob for for seconding the recommendation.

Thanks again!

 

[RobbieD]

One follow-up question... my cables are all still wrapped in the original corrugated plastic conduit. Once I am done -- and have either replaced the cable or not depending on what I find -- is it advisable to replace the conduit with new, or just use ties to bundle the cables back together and support them.

Just a general rule of thumb; try to put things back as best as you can. in the same condition as they were when new.

If the corrugated plastic conduit (split-loom) is still in good enough condition, reuse it. I don't think I would buy new split-loom for an old battery cable. I consider battery cables to be a "wear" item, which will require replacing at some point. So, if your cables are, there's a good chance that they should be replaced anyway.

Now, if I were putting a new replacement battery cable(s) on it, being me I'd spring the extra buck or two and put new split-loom on things, just like it was done at the factory.

If you need to neaten things up, zip-ties work good. No need to go overboard, and don't pull them too tight- that can actually create a stress point on a wire and cause it to fail.

 

[scotts90ranger]

The stock battery post clamps were the sheet metal type and by now are likely junk and not tight... If they've been replaced with the type that most people just cut the end off and strip half an inch of insulation and there's two screws to clamp the wire in chances are there's a bunch of corrosion in there, those things suck... not saying I don't have them on vehicles but I didn't put them there and have managed to make them less bad...

On a '97 the starter circuit is really dumb and I haven't completely made sense of it yet... The starter has a solenoid wire on it but there's still a starter relay behind the battery that does something for sure since it clicks when the ignition is in the start position but it does NOT give battery power to the big wire at the starter, found that out when I worked on my starter a few months ago...

I agree with the others, I would look at the battery cables, most likely corrosion is at the battery end and pulling sheathing off shouldn't be necessary, it'll be green and nasty at the battery or within a couple inches most likely...

Since it's dumb easy go on the passenger side at the top and reach under the exhaust manifold to the top part of the starter where the battery cable goes to it, if that cylinder on top is loose there's your problem, the starter solenoid on my '97 vibrated off, took the starter off and put the screws back in with some blue loctite after degreasing and it's good to go

 

[3rdCoastRanger]

Thank you both, RobbieD andscotts90ranger,

I am inclined to replace the battery cables regardless of what I am able to find, but I plan to investigate them first in the way RobbieD described in the first reply -- to see what I find, but also to get a good clear idea of how they run and where the attachment points are. I tend to like things neat and tidy, so I will get new split-loom and re-wrap and run everything the way I find it.

I will also take a close look at the battery post clamps. Thanks for the tip. If they look bad, when I replace the cables I will replace those as well.

I got my work cut out for me this coming Saturday.

Thanks, all.

 

[MaicoDoug]

You can detect a resistive connection by measuring the voltage across the suspected wire path. Or the resistance itself when the power is not even applied. I've seen large wires jumping around when large amounts of current are applied. Sign of a resistive connection.

 

[3rdCoastRanger]

Thank you to all, for the great advice and pointing me in the right direction on this diagnosis and repair. Problem solved. Truck starts right up and purrs like a kitten! I ended up replacing the full negative side battery to ground (the full cable from post clamps to the engine block, chasis, etc.) and the positive side battery post clamp.

I did a lot of investigating the way RobbieD described in his first response, looking for and listen closely for, and feeling for "crunchiness"as I flexed the cables. That's how I ultimately found the problem cable. It to me a bit to understand what MaicoDoug meant, but ultimately I put the multi-meter from the chassis to the negative terminal (and then the chassis to the positive terminal) on the battery and tried to start the truck, creating the fault. The negative side showed a voltage (around 9-10 V after the fault) after the falty start attempt and the positive side stayed essentially zero. That helped me narrow down the search.

Anyway, thanks a bunch to all for the help!

 

[Uncle Gump]

Voltage Drop Testing is a priceless way to check battery cables and clamps.

For future reference of course...