1987 2.3 - New T-belt, now no power

[Mr. Sharkey]

1987 2.3 - New T-belt, now no power (SOLVED)

After getting some advice on replacing the timing belt on my Ranger in this thread: http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1017295 , I've managed to get it put all back together, but am disappointed to find that I've lost about 50% of the already anemic power that my engine had before the failure.

Thinking that it was possible that I didn't get the timing right, I went back and verified that the crank, cam and distributor are all lined up properly. I was even concerned enough to pull the #1 spark plug and check to see that the front pulley timing mark was correct by inserting a section of welding wire into the cylinder and rocking the engine back and forth. As far as I can see, ~everything~ is set up properly.

The engine starts willingly, idles fine, drives OK, but there is basically no pulling power. It will rev to 4k fine, but takes forever to get there. You can feel the power hit flat spots as the RPM rises. The engine also feels and sounds "boggy", and the exhaust is louder than before (bad muffler to begin with).

The only thing I can think of is that I hosed some valves when the belt let go, the engine did make kind of a ratcheting noise as it died. I don't understand why it starts and idles fine if it has bent valves. Also, I was lead to understand that this is a non-interference engine.

Anyone care to offer some thoughts?

 

[Earl43P]

Valves should be undamaged.

I think you're off a tooth or two.

 

[Mr. Sharkey]

I'd be willing to believe that, but as I said above, everything lines up according to the procedures and photos in my Haynes and Clymer manuals.

I have a lot of experience setting up the timing on VW diesels, which is very critical. On those, the camshaft drive sprocket is not on a woodruff key, it depends only on the friction of a taper to hold it in alignment. As such, when setting up a new belt, you put a locking bar on the camshaft, install the belt on the (loose) sprocket, then tighten up the cam sprocket bolt to cinch the taper.

I mention this because the only thing I haven't verified is the camshaft position, aside from using the timing mark on the cam sprocket in alignment with the pointers on the front of the engine. Is there some cam timing procedure that Haynes doesn't mention?

Also, I set the auxiliary shaft sprocket so that the distributor was pointing directly at the #1 cylinder tower on the dist. cap. I notice that the rotor has a very wide electrode. Is there some trick to placing this before or behind the #1 cylinder on the cap?

 

[Rogue_Wulff]

The description of how the engine performs is very similar to how my 95 was running when I got it. The cam gear was *only* 5-6 teeth advanced. I suspected this was the problem, and took a chance on it for $700.

When you set the crank, did you use the mark on the gear, or the one on the pully? The cam and aux shaft marks should be pointing at each other, and lined up using a straight edge with the center of the bolts holding them to the shaft, as well as the cam gear mark lining up with the mark on the rear cover at the 4-5 o-clock position.

 

[Earl43P]

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104619 see Post #3

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6427 see Post #12

 

[BlackBII]

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104619 see Post #3

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6427 see Post #12

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=971403&postcount=3

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=135949&postcount=12

 

[Mr. Sharkey]

Thanks for the replies. I went and read the two indicated posts, and they agree with what I have experienced so far. Instead of making a TDC tool, I simply put a piece of welding rod into the spark plug hole while I rocked the engine and felt the piston top out. My front pulley timing marks appear to be accurate.

Funny thing, nothing I read told me to line up the cam and aux sprocket marker, but I intuitively did that when I first put the belt on. Checking the distributor showed that it wasn't even close to #1 cylinder, I had to pull the belt and rotate the aux shaft almost half a turn, now the pointer points at nothing in particular.

I did turn my attention to the distributor this morning. I remembered that I had removed the slotted cap so I could look underneath when I thought I was having ignition problems, I was concerned that I had put it back wrong, but it's not possible to do so.

I marked the #1 cylinder tower on the distributor cap with a permanent marker so that I could get the most accurate position measurement. Pointed a pencil at the mark with the rest of the engine at TDC, then pulled the cap off. The dist rotor was about 5° past (clockwise) the #1 dist cap tower.

I rotated the engine so that the camshaft sprocket pointer was one tooth before the marker on the front of the engine and rechecked the distributor. Now the rotor was about 5° before the #1 cylinder tower, and the timing mark on the front pulley was at 20° BTDC. This makes me believe that the distributor rotor is pointing directly at the #1 cylinder tower at 10° BTDC, which is what this engine has for dynamic timing spec.

So... I guess I'm still nowhere. It looks like I'm ½ tooth off if the rotor is supposed to point at #1 at TDC, or right on if the rotor is supposed to point at #1 when the plug is supposed to fire (10° BTDC). That's how I'd set up static timing on a points-type distributor.

I have no clue why the timing mark on the aux shaft sprocket doesn't point at the mark on the cam sprocket... ???? This truck did run fine before the timing belt shredded, and nothing has changed since then, distributor has not been removed, etc.

Still digging for answers.

 

[Mark_88]

Sorry to ask, but what year is your truck? EFI or carb?

It sounds like you are a tooth or two out...not hard to do...the aux shaft doesn't matter too much if you have Distributorless Ignition System (DIS)...

Unless I missed this information in your other post...it might help...

 

[Mr. Sharkey]

Mark, 1987 w/EFI

I'm not proud, I'd be really happy to find out that I made a stupid, correctable error, but I can't find any indication that it's been done wrong. I've been working on cars for 45 years, and thought that I knew what I was doing.

I'm tempted to take the valve cover off and look at the cam, see if the lobes are pointing where they should be. #1 cylinder should have both lobes pointing up (at 10 & 2 o'clock) and #4 should have the exhaust valve just closed at TDC. I don't see how the relationship between the cam and cam sprocket could have changed as a result of the belt stripping, nor do I see how it could have changed if there is a keyway in the two parts, but I'm getting desperate here.

Also need to borrow a timing light and look at the timing while the engine is running. It would be nice to find out it just needs a distributor tweak.

 

[Mark_88]

Thanks for the info...

Well, you've probably forgotten more than I'd ever learn about engines...

I'd say just make sure you're on the compression stroke on cylinder one and set the dizzy to point to number one plug...the crank mark "should" line up with the one on the aux gear since you haven't done anything with the dizzy...

Making mistakes is how I learned to have enough cash to pay someone else to finish the job if I screw it up...

 

[Earl43P]

I'd have turned that distributor a bunch of small increments by now.

 

[John Smith]

I would grab a timing lite...

pull the "pill button" and reset to 10 dregrees..just in case you've gotten your aux now correct but yet off 1 tooth from the "last" assembly which may have been "off"..just a thought...

 

[Mr. Sharkey]

It looks like I may have this problem on the run. Last week I had a friend stop by Halbol Fleight and buy my one of their cheap timing rights and bring it over from the city. The light was a POS, but it did work intermittently enough to see that my timing was set a TDC instead of -10. Boy, getting to that distributor hold down bolt is no picnic!

The proof was a work trip to Herman Peak (nearby mountain top up a steep logging road) to do some repairs to a radio facility. Back to adequate power again. Funny that the stupid Haynes manual doesn't tell you that you should set the timing after a belt change, or even give you the procedure for doing it.

Now I'm concerned that I don't know what a "pill button" is.

Started getting my diesel swap underway, ordered some gaskets and began pulling the Mitsubishi 4D55 out of the parts truck. This is the last time I'll have to deal with this particular probelm. Gasoline begone!

 

[RedRyder97]

Nice I my self have a 97. Did that belt swap and learned their was two marks to line up . I took some pics of it if you want to see . Check out my garage pics . Now if I could get rid of the hesitation at idle to first gear .

 

[Rogue_Wulff]

Nice I my self have a 97. Did that belt swap and learned their was two marks to line up . I took some pics of it if you want to see . Check out my garage pics . Now if I could get rid of the hesitation at idle to first gear .

Having looked at the pics, I can tell you this much. The diamonds on the aux shaft (oil pump/cam position sensor) are supposed to be lined up. The CPS syncronizes the fuel injectors with the ignition system, When it's out of sync, the engine will still run fine aside from having an off-idle hesitation. Been there, done that.

Have a look at this:
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Summer2010/4cyl_timing_belt.htm

It shows the cam uses the triangles, and the oil pump gear uses the diamonds.