Underdrive pulleys

[BlackBII]

That does not address the fact that the gains are there, does it? In your last sentence you elude to the fact that there is a 2.1 HP gain somewhere if noise was not an issue. So now that you admit that there is a gain it is simply a question of how much gain there is. We are finally on the right track. Next....

.

A 2.1 HP gain yes...which cannot accurately be measured...in any circumstance, so is it really there?

(If something cannot be accurately measured, it cannot be.)

 

[THE H.P FREAK]

If your claims weren't so patently ridiculous (e.g. 28mpg), you'd probably have more people listening. As it is, you sound more like a TV telemarketer.

HI!... Jelous????

 

[fastpakr]

Jealous? Not even slightly. I have a 2.3 that consistently and reliably gives the EPA measured 27mpg on the highway. Cold, hard numbers backed up by unbiased sources.

 

[Bob Ayers]

When vehicle manufacturers design engines they have to take into account a lot of things. CAFE ratings are one of them. Build costs and serviceability are others. I am sure that there are other factors too but these are the ones that directly effect this discussion. When Ford tunes the vehicles they have to take into consideration many different driving conditions and come up with a compromise that satisfies all the requirements. When say a pulley designer makes a pulley he only has to consider one thing. Will it fit. Anyone with a speck of intelligence knows that if you can reduce the torque required turn an accessory you will free up some power. The reason ford doesn't use power pulleys is that the alternator will not charge as well when it is turning slower. The water pump may not be as efficient and that could lead to overheating issues.

Page 142 of the Ford Racing catalog ;
SERPENTINE BELT HORSEPOWER PULLEY KITS – MUSTANG 5.0L
Contains steel crankshaft, water pump and alternator pulleys, plus bolts and installation instructions. Reduces accessory drive rpm by: (water pump–14%) and (alternator–22%) …and significantly improves performance! Pulleys are manufactured on state-of-the-art CNC machines and have an awesome blue finish over zinc plating. Pulleys use production serpentine belt.
WARNING: Engine cooling will be reduced

Who owns and endorses Ford Racing? What do they know that you don't?

.

Check out this document about warranties, interesting comments about UDPs:


By Joe Bradley, Manager of Ford's Warranty Analysis department

"As you might expect from the company that formed SVT, the Ford Motor Company has many employees who are true performance enthusiasts -- folks who love and care for their personal high-performance vehicles as much as or more than the next guy or gal. Many of us, in fact, are true "weekend warriors" who can be found at the local drag strip or road course on Saturdays and Sundays, and tinkering under the hood during weekday evenings getting ready for the next event. As automotive enthusiasts, we certainly can appreciate performance machinery.

That said, as Ford employees we all want to do the right thing for our customers as well as for the Ford Motor Company. That is precisely why it is important to have a concise, easy-to-understand policy with regard to Ford warranty administration. For vehicles that are not modified, the Ford warranty policy is clear – the company backs its products within the guidelines of the new vehicle limited warranty, which is designed to protect the customer from defects in factory workmanship and/or material.

However, in the case of vehicles that have been modified, one needs to understand that the modifications may affect warranty coverage. This is simply because any damage or failure of new vehicle components or systems that was caused by modifications to the vehicle are not defects in "factory supplied" workmanship or material.

To illustrate this point, let's consider a small sample of vehicle modifications and see how they might affect factory components or systems: When it comes to changing the factory engine drive pulleys, there are some powertrain system and component concerns that deserve consideration. One would be any electrical and/or charging system problems that arise because of reduced alternator operating speed caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. After all, the performance and serviceability of many system components are based on certain design parameters that include operating speed. The same goes for problems stemming from higher cooling system temperatures because of reduced water pump flow caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. Increased underhood temperatures caused by owner-induced changes to a factory design-specification part can have a detrimental effect on any number of powertrain components or systems – some that may have long-range implications. And things can get even more serious when supercharger pulley changes are made, including head gasket leaks and piston and connecting rod failures. Also possible is piston damage due to detonation from improper air/fuel and timing modifications.

The installation of any non-factory forced induction system can also cause problems. Base engines modified with aftermarket superchargers, turbochargers or nitrous oxide injection systems may indeed bring about some power gains, but they can cause piston, connecting rod and/or crankshaft failures as well.

Other parts of a vehicle's factory-spec drivetrain are also susceptible to damage when engine torque and horsepower is increased. Performance chips or other power-enhancing devices increase torque loads on the driveline and can force failure of the transmission and/or rear axle. The latter problem can be especially true when owners switch to wider tires or racing slicks in an effort to increase traction. Even non "go-fast" aftermarket accessories such as remote starters, alarms, supplementary gauges and audio equipment can cause electrical system service problems if they are installed incorrectly or have improper connections.

When it comes to fairly evaluating the possibility of a warranty denial, there's one simple rule of thumb to follow: Although the installation of non-Ford parts and aftermarket modifications, by themselves, will not void the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty, failures that result from these parts and/or modifications may result in a denial of warranty coverage for such failures or damage.

The bottom line is, Ford Motor Company wants each of its owners to enjoy their product to the fullest extent – and that includes performance vehicles. But dealer service technicians have seen, and continue to see, that modifications may cause the original design to fail. The addition of aftermarket parts is a risk that each and every vehicle owner must evaluate for themselves. All that's needed is a reasonable dose of common sense. When and if you modify your vehicle, please consider whether the modification may cause another component to fail – and if it does, recognize that warranty coverage for that failure or damage will likely be denied. "








http://www.camaroforums.com/archive/threads/underdrive-pulley-problems-22277-1.html


http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/8685-underdrive-pulley-problems.html


http://audi.cats.lv/page/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=10

 

[iceracer60]

very nice find bob

 

[THE H.P FREAK]

HI!... Your point? Like I give a crap about warrenty. My vehicles never go back to the dealer. Goes in for one thing, comes out with 5 other things wrong. I know, I was a tech at a Ford dealership.

There's also this :


Magnuson Moss Warranty Act

Where the dealership must prove in a court of law that the after market product that you installed caused the stock factory part to fail.

This is for the Americans. We don't have this act in Canada so basically the dealership can tell you to #$%^ off anytime they want over anything.

 

[fddriver02]

Get the alternator pulley to fix the charging issue. Oh gee. Fixed.

 

[iceracer60]

ok for one, can you stop saying hi at the beginning of every post?

and as for warranty, you must have to much money if you dont care about your warranty, because that is pretty much free money if you need anything fixed. plus if you have more problems leaving the dealer than before you went in, id say you just have shitty techs at your dealer. im a tech and 9.99 times out of 10 when a vehicle leaves the shop its fixed. so if you got all this extra money you can throw some my way lol

 

[JMC]

Bob Ayers,

I fail to see what your post about warranties has to do with weather a part increases performance or not. But just incase I copied this from the Ford racing catalog;

SVT and Mustang. Two names that have become synonymous with Ford performance. SVT engineers, working with Carroll Shelby’s team, have developed the SVT GT500, the most powerful Mustang ever produced by Ford. In only its third model year, this street burner has already become one of the most desirable Mustangs, both by collectors and racers alike. While collectors may be content to admire their investments in the garage, those
who push their cars to the limit want one thing—to go even faster! And who better to look to for maximum performance out of this 500 hp production beast than the factory? In this case, the factory is Ford Racing. Working hand-in-glove with the engineers at SVT, Ford Racing has developed performance packs that allow the SVT Mustang owner to take his car to the next step with confidence. After all, Ford Racing SVT Mustang
performance packs are Ford-engineered as complete systems, and are the only SVT Mustang performance packs that are covered by a limited warranty from Ford (when dealer-installed). Whether you want to increase power with the Power Upgrade Package, improve acceleration with the Drag Pack, carve the corners with more control with the Handling Pack or take your 5.4L engine to an amazing 605 horsepower, you can do it with the SVT Mustang performance packs from Ford Racing.

Oh well, I guess they can warranty some things that are for improved performance.....

.

 

[THE H.P FREAK]

ok for one, can you stop saying hi at the beginning of every post?

and as for warranty, you must have to much money if you dont care about your warranty, because that is pretty much free money if you need anything fixed. plus if you have more problems leaving the dealer than before you went in, id say you just have shitty techs at your dealer. im a tech and 9.99 times out of 10 when a vehicle leaves the shop its fixed. so if you got all this extra money you can throw some my way lol

HI!......... NO......

Well most dealership techs I have met are idiots. Out of the whole shop there's usually 2-3 techs that are real good. The rest are a bunch of part changers. Several times years ago I went in knowing exactly what the problem was. They fixed everything around it except for the problem. Took them 6 tries but they finally got it. I wasn't complaining, they wasted about $1200 of FORD's money giving me brand new parts to replace ones that there was nothing wrong with. lol!

I'm a very hands on person. If something needs fixing I fix it myself, rather than pay someone else to do it.

 

[AllanD]

HI!... Just to correct you. I have been to the dragstrip, "ONCE" this year and twice last year with this 2007 RANGER. Why would I want to make it lighter? It's my daily driver/work truck. Obviously what I'm doing is working out VERY well. It's not lightened up, minus removing the tailgate at the track, and it runs good #'s at the track and gets great MPG.

IF you've only been to the strip three times you improved ET's can be entirely a functional artifact of you practicing with your different vehicle. (as opposed to any other vehicle you may have driven at the strip)

You make a change you've gotta learn how to drive it again.

Your improved ET's MIGHT have come from a better layer of rubber at the startion line or because a given day was 5degrees cooler...

You have just admitted that ou have nothing resembling a
stastical database to support ANY claims whatsoever!


You be blowin smoke.

AD

 

[dangerranger83]

I'm just wondering, why is everybody arguing? He put under drive pullies on his truck big whoooop. If he say he has a performance increase of some kind then he has it whether its true or not. I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying I've been reading nothing but arguing for the last few pages.

If your a person that doesn't like them don't use them and vise versa.

Like I said drive your truck the way you want and put what you want on your truck.

 

[Bob Ayers]

HI!... Your point? Like I give a crap about warrenty. My vehicles never go back to the dealer. Goes in for one thing, comes out with 5 other things wrong. I know, I was a tech at a Ford dealership.

There's also this :


Magnuson Moss Warranty Act

Where the dealership must prove in a court of law that the after market product that you installed caused the stock factory part to fail.

This is for the Americans. We don't have this act in Canada so basically the dealership can tell you to #$%^ off anytime they want over anything.

Again, you have picked up a BUZZ WORD (Manguson Moss Warranty Act)you know nothing about!



The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was intended and is intended to protect the consumer, the person who bought the vehicle, from the manufacture dictating to them, the consumer, that they MUST use the manufactures oils, filters, belts, tires, etc, the list goes on.

Now, a manufacture can FORCE you to use only their parts BUT if they do they, the manufacture, must supply it to you free of charge and free of any labor cost. That is the very short version of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

The “Act” will NOT protect you if you install “performance enhancing” parts, such as a supercharger, nitrous oxide, suspension kits, etc. The reason is when you install those kinds of parts you are in fact “altering” the original design of the vehicle and frankly I would stand side by side with any manufacture in any court and take their side.

No one has a right to alter the vehicles original design AND then expect the manufacture to warranty items rendered defective because of said parts. For example if you install a supercharger and blow your motor, transmission or rear-end tough luck that’s your fault and NOT the manufactures.

With that said, the above example would ONLY render your power train warranty invalided but none of the rest of the warranty. People look at the warranty as a complete package and it is NOT, it has many entities to it such as electrical, suspension etc. While one may be rendered invalid the rest is not.

Personally I hope no manufacture would ever have to pay for repairs to someone’s vehicle that puts on a cold air intake and then blows the motor because of a lean condition. If the manufacture was ever forced to do those then guess what? We all pay for the dummies who know nothing about properly tuning a vehicle. Trust me the manufacture will indeed pass that cost along to everyone in the form of higher vehicle prices.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is ONLY FOR aftermarket parts that MEET the manufactures specifications. If you use the wrong motor oil that does not meet Ford’s specifications guess what? You out of luck because you just voided your warranty for failure to use the PROPER specified parts.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is NOT and has NEVER been for aftermarket PERFORMANCE INHANCING parts.

FORD CLEARLY STATES THE FOLLOWING:

From the Ford Cars and Light Trucks 2006 Model Year Warranty Guide (June 2005, Fourth Printing) page 8:

Not covered by the warranty:

”Damage Caused by Alteration or Modification
* alterations or modifications of the vehicle, including the body, chassis, or components, after the vehicle leaves the control of Form Motor Company.

That right their my friends should put everybody’s mind to rest because ANY alterations or modifications will void that part of the warranty. Cold air intake, tunes, programs then kiss the power train, transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye. Lowering kits, kiss the suspension, possibly the transmission and rear-end warranty bye-bye etc…

 

[THE H.P FREAK]

IF you've only been to the strip three times you improved ET's can be entirely a functional artifact of you practicing with your different vehicle. (as opposed to any other vehicle you may have driven at the strip)

You make a change you've gotta learn how to drive it again.

Your improved ET's MIGHT have come from a better layer of rubber at the startion line or because a given day was 5degrees cooler...

You have just admitted that ou have nothing resembling a
stastical database to support ANY claims whatsoever!


You be blowin smoke.

AD

HI!... Have you ever been down a dragstrip? By the sound of your post not very many. I've been down probably around 3500 times so far in my life, + not to mention all the street racing I've done years back. If you need to re-learn how to drive your vehicle after only some minor bolt-ons then there's something definitely wrong. Ya, you go from a leaf spring suspension set-up to a tubbed 4-link set up, then ya for a few runs you got to get used to how the vehicle launches and tracs down the track. That's not the case here.

The truck went 16.10E.T completely bone stock in 68 degree weather. The 3 mods that I have mentioned were added and then it went 14.67E.T in 90 degree weather. If anything due to the heat the truck should of went slower. Traction was the same at a 2.0 60FT. on both runs. Traction was not a issue.

 

[Bob Ayers]

HI!... Your point? Like I give a crap about warrenty. My vehicles never go back to the dealer. Goes in for one thing, comes out with 5 other things wrong. I know, I was a tech at a Ford dealership.

Based the technical knowledge you have shown, I can see why you are speaking for yourself, but don't judge all Ford techs by your experience as a Ford tech!