Settle something for me...390 vs 400.

[rusty ol ranger]

I got a buddy that thinks the 390 is the best thing since sliced bread.

I think the 400 is the better overall engine.

Disclosure...ive never really messed with FEs beyond driving a couple. They were fine but not really knock your socks off.

The 400s i have had seemed to have torque for days and a cooling system that actually worked.

So....whats your guys take?

 

[Blmpkn]

140

 

[rusty ol ranger]

140

Please......we are talking engines...not noisemakers

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

300… with a cross-flow head.

 

[Curious Hound]

140

Is that on your weedeater?

 

[Shran]

FE's are really heavy... 1950's technology. 351M/400's are just neutered by smog controls and lack of significant aftermarket support and they never came with cool hot rod parts out of the box like FE's did. Other Ford engines from the era suffer from the same stuff too. 385 family... heavy...maybe smog parts...maybe pretty cool. SBF, light but not a ton of power stock.

I drove a few FE powered trucks back in the day and they were no hot rods but plenty reliable. I have no preference towards any of them from about 67 on, I think if I was building a truck I would just use whatever was in it unless there was nothing, and in that case it would be a 351W in a half ton or any of the others in a 250/350. I'd have a very hard time building a stock 302, 352, 351M, 360...etc... seems like kind of a waste when you can find more bigger & more better parts for a build.

For a 66 or older build I think a 351W or inline 6 would be my go-to's if I was starting with nothing. I like inline 6's in general but they just seem right at home in those old trucks and less so in newer ones.

 

[don4331]

I got a buddy that thinks the 390 is the best thing since sliced bread.

I think the 400 is the better overall engine.

Disclosure...ive never really messed with FEs beyond driving a couple. They were fine but not really knock your socks off.

The 400s i have had seemed to have torque for days and a cooling system that actually worked.

So....whats your guys take?

Reminiscing about my misspent youth here:

I would have said the Y-block was 50's tech with the FE being 60's and the 400 being a 70's smog motor.

The '71 400 wasn't bad: limited by only being produced with 2 bbl carb, but with 9.0:1 compression, made decent torque with that 4" stroke. By '75, they reduced the compression to 8.0:1, saddled it with catalytic converters = unleaded 87 (not even low octane leaded aka bronze) and with only 145hp, it was...ordinary. With no hot rod parts (not even a 4bbl intake), a high school student saw no potential.

Now, the end of the line 390s, specifically those in trucks, were pretty much the same: 410 pistons which were 0.100" short to drop compression ratio and 2 bbls carbs.

But, the 390 in grandma's '68 clear mountain car, aka Mercury Montcalm, was the exact same block, and it came with decent cam/compression and carb (4 bbl). OK, it liked red aka premium leaded, but it made power! Over double what the 400 was making.

So, my view on the 390 vs 400 is very much tilted in favour of the FE.

And we just build a real fire breathing 416 FE for my buddy's '68 Mustang.

 

[Rick W]

You guys have probably forgotten more about these engines than I will ever know, you know way more than I do, but you know I have a story for everything!

Late 2,000s & early 2,010s I had a 1973 F350 tow truck 79 grille w pusher bumper & Holmes pto driven mechanical wrecker boom with a rear hydraulic wheel lift. A guy who had a wrecker company up in Detroit, it was his first wrecker, and after he wore it out, he rebuilt it, wore it out again, and then he rebuilt it, but customized it like we might do a muscle car. It was the company mascot until he passed away. When I got it, it was worn out again. We were screwing around drinking and playing cards and bidding on eBay, I bid $2100 as a joke - positive I would be out bid - and I won the damn thing. So I drove up in a sports car, hooked the sports car on the back and drove it back to Atlanta. The thing was ugly, but it ran like the top.

And let me digress another moment and say that that’s one of two times I ever towed anything with it. It’s like the Road Ranger, just a big toy, except the wrecker was completely functional.

He had chromed it up and he put in a stripped/built Mercury 390. I don’t know the year of the engine, but there was no concept of pollution control on this thing. It got under 10 miles a gallon on premium, but it was a stump puller more than anything I’ve ever seen. It easily went 70 towing the sports car down from Detroit, but mostly it was just solid incredible torque. When my buddies were building Camaros and Mustangs, I got this thing, and I repainted it and cleaned it up, and it pissed them all off because it got more attention than their show cars at car shows. That’s just because nobody in my circles was crazy enough to ever own anything like that.

But that engine was magical. That F350 was much more heavy duty than the F350s they make today, and the wrecker bed was made out of plate steel, and it and the Holmes boom weighed a ton and a half. I’d start out in the granny gear, and it was a smooth as those Lincoln Towncars, nothing but power.

I can’t compare to a 400 since I’ve never had one. But that mercury 390 in that truck had three or four times the power of the 460 in my Mark V. But that Mark is OEM choked down by the pollution stuff. Low on my list is to have it stripped down and beefed up a little bit, but I’ll probably never make it.

I had a blast with that truck, but like many of my toys over the years, a guy down the road just had to have it and the price got right. They’re knocking on my door for that Mark V right now, but I’m not ready to sell.

For what it’s worth…

 

[19Walt93]

I worked on a bunch of FE's and 351m/400's. The FE was great but it hung around too long, in 75 and 76 we had a bunch of trouble caused by the worn out equipment they were built with- sand holes in the cylinder bores so coolant would slowly leak into the oil, sloppy crank machining causing poor bearing fit, excess oil consumption for example but they ran good. They were hard on gas but no one complained and most all of them leaked oil.
When the 351m and 400 showed up in 77 we thought it would be great but they were dogs because of retarded advance curves and lean fuel systems. The worst problem was the blocks cracking in the lifter valley and letting coolant slowly leak into the oil, the early blocks were flat in the valley and the improved ones had a wavy surface that fixed it. Edelbrock makes a nice intake manifold for a 400(or they used to) and recurving a distributor isn't rocket science.
If you're starting from scratch and aren't building a racing engine, I'd probably pick a 400- there's no reason to build a 351 because only the pistons and crank are different, if you're going to have all the weight you might as well have all the cubes. Just make sure the lifter valley is wavy.
On the other hand, if you have the budget for it, aftermarket rotating assemblies along with aluminum blocks and heads are available for FE's. No 400 ever ran as strong as 60's S code 390 4 barrel and don't even think about comparing one to a 428CJ or a 427.
For my own vehicle I'd build a 351w based stroker with a roller cam and aftermarket heads.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

400's were good but they did have top end oiling issues.

Dad ran his forever doing F-350 things.

Couple that with all the emissions garbage and at least out the box the 390 would likely be more reliable out of the box.

It is a shame they crapped on the Cleaveland line so hard. There is a lot to like about them over the Windsor, the 351M abomination never should have existed.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

400's were good but they did have top end oiling issues.

Dad ran his forever doing F-350 things.

Couple that with all the emissions garbage and at least out the box the 390 would likely be more reliable out of the box.

It is a shame they crapped on the Cleaveland line so hard. There is a lot to like about them over the Windsor, the 351M abomination never should have existed.

I really wish ford would of stuck with the 400 up through the years then the 460.

I get it....the 460 competes better in a sales brochure against a 454, but i personally feel the 400 could of really been something with a bit of TLC on fords part.

and also....from personal experience the 400 is more reliable then a 460

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I really wish ford would of stuck with the 400 up through the years then the 460.

I get it....the 460 competes better in a sales brochure against a 454, but i personally feel the 400 could of really been something with a bit of TLC on fords part.

and also....from personal experience the 400 is more reliable then a 460

I know the later 460's ran pretty good, it would be interesting to meet a 400 with a factory roller cam (which I know the 460 never had) and factory multiport EFI though...

 

[cbxer55]

My parents had a 65 Thunderbird with a 390 four barrel. I was a Junior/senior at the time. They let me drive it to school occasionally. All bright red. It was a beautiful car. It has STOMP!!

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I know the later 460's ran pretty good, it would be interesting to meet a 400 with a factory roller cam (which I know the 460 never had) and factory multiport EFI though...

Kinda what i was getting at. Back in the 70s even emission strangled the 400 didnt do bad next to the 460 of the era when you account the size difference.

IIRC the 400 made like 80% of the 460s torque at a lower RPM, and was like 30hp less.

I had the latest of the late 460s and it had tons of ass...but with the 400s long stroke if it got the 90s treatment i bet it would of really been stout.

The 400 had basically same bore\stroke and cam profile as the 300 and we know how it did.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Kinda what i was getting at. Back in the 70s even emission strangled the 400 didnt do bad next to the 460 of the era when you account the size difference.

IIRC the 400 made like 80% of the 460s torque at a lower RPM, and was like 30hp less.

I had the latest of the late 460s and it had tons of ass...but with the 400s long stroke if it got the 90s treatment i bet it would of really been stout.

The 400 had basically same bore\stroke and cam profile as the 300 and we know how it did.

Eh, they would have nerfed it with 302 heads like they did with the 351W or something similar.

IMO they can't help themselves.