Need new entire frame for 2001 Ford Ranger extended or doublecab XLT v8 swapped What are my options?

[franklin2]

I was doing some reading and it seems like its gonna be a nightmare to register the vehicle in CA. I have to have the title of both vehicles and i think you register the frame vehicle as your vehicle. That along with the BAR certificate and smog... There maybe issues or fees idk. I picture them charging me alot to register the vehicle. But i will have to navigate that issue later.

Wondering if i should go get my salvage title now so i can get my rebuilt title later easier. Right now the title is still clean. But that is BS the truck is totaled. 75% of the vehicles value to fix it.

And i could got get a second opinion on the frame but that will cost me money and i have to drive the potentially unsafe vehicle around. There are not very many shops in my area that deal with frame damage. I would have to go drive a ways.

Why do you need to do all that? As long as the VIN on the windshield and on the door jamb match the title, who cares about the frame? Who is going to look for the VIN on the frame?

P.S. Sorry, I did not see all the other posts where people say the same thing.

 

[SlugStang8997]

I think they're nuts enough out there that the state wants the Vin on the frame to be verfied..

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Thanks for your reply
Yeah CA is pretty awful when it comes to just about anything having to do with cars and trucks. They have there own rules for everything.

Like i was saying i think you have to register the frame vin number in ca as the vehicle thats crazy but i think thats the rule and you have to have both titles for both vehicles.
I personally think that is a terrible idea but thats CA for you.

I will get the job done first then navigate the registration later. Im not going to drive the truck much for the next few months. It will take me at least 2-3 months to comfortably pay 5500 and up to have the frame swapped.

 

[pentode]

I think they're nuts enough out there that the state wants the Vin on the frame to be verfied..

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Quebec is pretty nuts on that stuff too - maybe not as bad as California but they take themselves pretty seriously. Buddy of mine bought a 34 Ford VIN tag from the USA and built a whole car to go with it. Quebec inspection wanted to see the VIN on the frame so he bought one of those kits pictured and punched his VIN into the frame. All the bureaucrats were happy.

 

[SlugStang8997]

The Previous Owner offered to fix the truck for free but i don't know if he could fix the truck. Frame replacement i think is a big job for a single person to do. Maybe a half frame replacement then unbend the front. But there is also rust damage. I don't doubt there ability to fix things but i just think its too much of a job for one person working alone unless they have help. They did swap the motor rear end and transmission so maybe i will consider it for awhile but most likely im just going to pay a shop to just do it because then i get a warranty of some kind

 

[JoshT]

Like i was saying i think you have to register the frame vin number in ca as the vehicle thats crazy but i think thats the rule and you have to have both titles for both vehicles.

I'm not in cali, but I think you're getting some bad information there. Back in the 60s (maybe early 70s) the VIN on trucks was assigned to the chassis, not to the cab. Back then there was no VIN plate on the cab, there was a warranty label on the door that carried the VIN, but it was not the federally accepted VIN tag. You could put what ever you wanted to on top of the frame, and it would still be registered by the frame VIN.

That changed sometime in the late 70s or early 80s when it was mandated that the VIN label be placed in the corner of the windshield as we see it now. Since that change over, the numbers on the frame don't really matter, the one in the windshield is what is federally required.

They may inspect for alternate VINs but this can only really be used to identify stolen parts. If a number doesn't match and it's not recorded in a database of stolen vehicles, there shouldn't be a problem. If you've got a reciept where you legitimately purchased that frame its even better, but I wouldn't offer the information unless asked. If asked and no reciept, I'd probably play it off as something I was unaware of and done by previous owner.

As for the salvage title thing, if the truck currently has a clear title you're nuts to intentionally try and get it salvge titled. Swap the frame and noone will be the wiser. Tell (in writing) potential buyers if you ever decide to sell so that it can't come back to bite you for not notifying them, but the state doesn't need to know anything. Frame is a replacable part as previously stated.

There have been several cases of manufacturer replacing a bad frame, they don't re-VIN the vehicle for the new frame, it keeps the original VIN. Bodyshops have done it too, replace the frame, fix damage, ship finished product. The vehicle leaves with the same VIN that it arrived with. There are mirad reasons for frame replacement that extend beyond accidents or anything that would otherwise total the vehicle. If it's properly repaired, there is no reason to saddle it with a salvage or rebuilt title.

 

[SlugStang8997]

I'm not in cali, but I think you're getting some bad information there. Back in the 60s (maybe early 70s) the VIN on trucks was assigned to the chassis, not to the cab. Back then there was no VIN plate on the cab, there was a warranty label on the door that carried the VIN, but it was not the federally accepted VIN tag. You could put what ever you wanted to on top of the frame, and it would still be registered by the frame VIN.

That changed sometime in the late 70s or early 80s when it was mandated that the VIN label be placed in the corner of the windshield as we see it now. Since that change over, the numbers on the frame don't really matter, the one in the windshield is what is federally required.

They may inspect for alternate VINs but this can only really be used to identify stolen parts. If a number doesn't match and it's not recorded in a database of stolen vehicles, there shouldn't be a problem. If you've got a reciept where you legitimately purchased that frame its even better, but I wouldn't offer the information unless asked. If asked and no reciept, I'd probably play it off as something I was unaware of and done by previous owner.

As for the salvage title thing, if the truck currently has a clear title you're nuts to intentionally try and get it salvge titled. Swap the frame and noone will be the wiser. Tell (in writing) potential buyers if you ever decide to sell so that it can't come back to bite you for not notifying them, but the state doesn't need to know anything. Frame is a replacable part as previously stated.

There have been several cases of manufacturer replacing a bad frame, they don't re-VIN the vehicle for the new frame, it keeps the original VIN. Bodyshops have done it too, replace the frame, fix damage, ship finished product. The vehicle leaves with the same VIN that it arrived with. There are mirad reasons for frame replacement that extend beyond accidents or anything that would otherwise total the vehicle. If it's properly repaired, there is no reason to saddle it with a salvage or rebuilt title.

Thank you for your reply and all the information

 

[SlugStang8997]

Since im going to have my frame swapped is it worth it to get the frame coated with paint or should i do powder coating? Is it worth it. Cause someone might come along one day and hit my truck and there goes another frame lol.
Since there going to take the entire truck apart is there anything i should consider doing while everything is apart? I fear with the age of the truck that something going to break along the way. Costing me more money

Another problem i have is i don't have a place to store the frame until im ready to swap it. I was hoping the body shop would let me store the frame there with them until i am ready. So 2-3 months yeah right lol. I can afford to buy a frame now but i just can't afford the labor yet unless i jack up a credit card witch im not willing to do.

 

[pentode]

Depends on your budget. One thing can I tell you is that powder coating, paint or bare metal, if you just fluid film it every couple years it'll outlast the body (unless you fluid film that too)

Actually fluid film does great on dirty rusty surfaces too. Luckily for me. No I don’t own stock or make a commission. I just like the smell of sheep.

 

[JoshT]

You are in California, not an area known for frame rust issues, so I wouldn't bother with anything like fluid film. Even with no coating, in your environment the frame and bed are both likely to outlive you with just regular care.

IMO, since the frame is going to be bare, it would be a perfect time to coat it.

I would not use powdercoat on a frame. Powdercoat is a "plastic" melted to the surface of the metal. To prep you would need to take everything to bare metal. As long as it is intact it'll do a good job of protecting, but if it ever gets a rock chip it'll start to fail. Moisture gets under it, rust starts, and frame problems. Powder coat can't be patched when it gets damaged, you've basically got to start over. Well frame is one place that it very likely to get hit by rocks and debris bouncing up off the road, especially a truck frame.

I would use paint, the big reasons are that prep is easier (for a basic paint job, not a show quality job) and it can be patched. For painting, just start with thoroughly cleaning the frame. Remove and/or treat any rusty areas, then prime and paint with a tough paint. Considering that it's a truck that is to be driven and used, I'd probably go with something like Rust-Oleum Farm & Implement paint. (Speaking @Rick W's language here) Stuff is tough and forgiving, and easy to touch up when/if it gets damaged. It'll chip just like powdercoat, but you can easily sand it out and give it a hit from a spray can to patch it up if need be.

As for storage and money. As someone said above, drive it as is for now. Regardless of what that shop said, you have been driving it with no problems. It's out of shape, but nothing that affects the operation or safety of the vehicle. Take some time to recouperate the bank account and shop for the best deal on a nice frame. In that time, decide if you really want to put more money into fixing it, and make arrangements for getting and storing the frame when the time comes.

I wouldn't rely on a shop to store it for me, could lead to other storage fees and problems. Give them the frame when you give them the truck. I have plenty of place to store stuff like that (and I'd be doing the work myself), but if I didn't I think I'd hire a storage rental that it would fit in before relying on the shop to store. If I were in your shoes, when I got the frame I'd drop it and the truck off ASAP for them to start. Still might sit at their place waiting for a bay to open, but it's there and ready for work to start. If that means waiting a few months for your accounts to recouperate before getting a frame, so be it. There's enough of these trucks out there, that there will be frames around.

 

[Rick W]

You are in California, not an area known for frame rust issues, so I wouldn't bother with anything like fluid film. Even with no coating, in your environment the frame and bed are both likely to outlive you with just regular care.

IMO, since the frame is going to be bare, it would be a perfect time to coat it.

I would not use powdercoat on a frame. Powdercoat is a "plastic" melted to the surface of the metal. To prep you would need to take everything to bare metal. As long as it is intact it'll do a good job of protecting, but if it ever gets a rock chip it'll start to fail. Moisture gets under it, rust starts, and frame problems. Powder coat can't be patched when it gets damaged, you've basically got to start over. Well frame is one place that it very likely to get hit by rocks and debris bouncing up off the road, especially a truck frame.

I would use paint, the big reasons are that prep is easier (for a basic paint job, not a show quality job) and it can be patched. For painting, just start with thoroughly cleaning the frame. Remove and/or treat any rusty areas, then prime and paint with a tough paint. Considering that it's a truck that is to be driven and used, I'd probably go with something like Rust-Oleum Farm & Implement paint. (Speaking @Rick W's language here) Stuff is tough and forgiving, and easy to touch up when/if it gets damaged. It'll chip just like powdercoat, but you can easily sand it out and give it a hit from a spray can to patch it up if need be.

As for storage and money. As someone said above, drive it as is for now. Regardless of what that shop said, you have been driving it with no problems. It's out of shape, but nothing that affects the operation or safety of the vehicle. Take some time to recouperate the bank account and shop for the best deal on a nice frame. In that time, decide if you really want to put more money into fixing it, and make arrangements for getting and storing the frame when the time comes.

I wouldn't rely on a shop to store it for me, could lead to other storage fees and problems. Give them the frame when you give them the truck. I have plenty of place to store stuff like that (and I'd be doing the work myself), but if I didn't I think I'd hire a storage rental that it would fit in before relying on the shop to store. If I were in your shoes, when I got the frame I'd drop it and the truck off ASAP for them to start. Still might sit at their place waiting for a bay to open, but it's there and ready for work to start. If that means waiting a few months for your accounts to recouperate before getting a frame, so be it. There's enough of these trucks out there, that there will be frames around.

I haven’t been following this thread, but I get the gist. In Georgia we also have very little problem with rust, but I came from Jersey, which can be about as bad as it gets. And don’t forget the California is bigger than New Jersey (a little bit) and northern California could get some harsh weather.

People joke, but I swear by Rustoleum. For something like a frame, if there is a bad spot, brush it and prime it with Rust oleum. If there is not a bad spot, just pressure wash the hound out of it to try to get all of the silt and muck out of all the dark corners and around the rivets and such. Make sure it’s bone dry after. Maybe use a heat gun on pinched spots.

The trick is not just rust oleum, but how you use it. If it’s a clean frame, I would mix the Rust oleum 50-50 with mineral spirits. And brush IN, not ON, brush it on sloppy like you were mopping a floor. The thinned out rust oleum will wick up into every crevice and crack, under the rivets, etc., etc. etc. Then, before it cures, maybe 12 hours later, cover everything with full strength. Again. The 5050 will penetrate, but it will adhere, and then the full strength will intermingle with the 50-50 before it sets and you end up with a solid layer.

Rattle Cans are for posters. Especially on something like a frame that you barely see, slop it on.

Last thought, but if there is surface rust or if it’s imperfect, start with 2/3 mineral spirits and 1/3 paint, then 5050, then full strength. The solvent will draw the paint into the tiniest places, and then the paint will draw more paint on top of itself.

Even on priming, think twice. If you don’t think you can get all the salty dust and muck from all the tight spaces, I would just start with pure rustoleum paint. The primer can sit on top of dirt, and seal it, but moisture can still get in and start rust. The thinned out paint will penetrate every time.

From experience, and from a chemical engineer…

Good luck with it, I hope it helps

 

[don4331]

@SlugStang8997:

You're getting a lot of good advice, but let's slow the train for a moment.

For your $$$, did the frame shop find any damage in the cab section of the cab? What we see in the video is damage to the rear section. (Kind of confirms my initial concerns about hit from behind.)

'98-'11 frame are 2 pieces:

3 front sections:​

SuperCab​

Regular Cab, Long box​

Regular Cab, Short box​

2 rear sections:​

Long box​

Short box​

If there is no damage to the front section, there is a Ford procedure to replace the rear section:

It is more easily done with the box off and removing the gas tank (it just unbolts).​

You remove the damaged rear section by removing 16 rivets and replacing the 8 rivets on the spring shackles with 1/2" bolts and the ones on the cross member with 7/16" ones. (Ford recommended to use grade 8 bolts)​

You will need separate the rear axle from the frame section (Similar to how I cheat with exhaust manifold bolts; I 1st try removing the bolts myself. If they come out, I'm golden. If they don't, I go to spring shop and have them replace the bolts. (some day, I'll have a big enough compressor to run an air chisel, but until then...)​

and you will need to undo some wiring/vacuum lines.​

​

The cool part about this is, you can ease your way through the process.

You'll need a grinder, a drill (with 7/16 and 1/2" drill bit), Torx T55 bit, 1/2" drive bar, 8 & 10mm sockets in 3/8" or 1/4" and ratchet, a chisel, a punch and a BFH. (You will need a couple additional sockets to remove/reinstall the rear bumper). Jack and jack stands highly recommended.​

You grind off the rivet head (I do an "*", i.e. 3 slices into rivet head, then chisel the "pizza slices" off, followed by grinding flush, but you may just grind flush if you choose. Then take the punch and drive the rest of the rivet out with the big f***ing hammer. At that point, you may ream the hole to replace the rivet with appropriate bolt.​

Repeat 15 more times. (Having box at least pushed back a couple feet makes it much more convenient to remove the top rivets; disconnecting the springs at front is recommended too).​

The truck always remains drivable. (OK, as the truck is, is drivable, the frame is compromised in the damaged location. As a result, if you were hit from behind, it wouldn't provide the expected resistance. Hence, the concern from the frame shop.)​

During the process, I have located a rear frame section from a wrecker (In my earlier picture, they cut the frame just before the joint, so I'm having to repeat the process on the replacement part). The rear frame sections are shorter than box length and its also narrower once the spring shackles are removed. So, it can sit in the box while waiting.​

Removing the rivets on the replacement section can be considered the dry run for executing on the truck. If you have the rear section ready, even if you get a shop to do it, it would save them time = you $$$.​

​

Then on D-day, the box is removed, the gas tank dropped, the truck jacked up onto jack stands, the bolts (both frame and springs)/wiring/vacuum undone, the bad section removed, the good one slid in. Everything bolted back together.​

​

I had a very non mechanical buddy help me on the "D-Day" on one of my trucks. He was shocked at how easily the rusty old section came out/new replacement one went in.​

The biggest PIA was reinstalling the gas tank (fuel wanted to slosh making it difficult to hold steady while putting bolts in).​

​

The rear frame sections in my earlier picture didn't cost me $500.​

​

Replacing the front 1/2 or whole frame is much more work.​

 

[pentode]

You are in California, not an area known for frame rust issues, so I wouldn't bother with anything like fluid film. Even with no coating, in your environment the frame and bed are both likely to outlive you with just regular care.

IMO, since the frame is going to be bare, it would be a perfect time to coat it.

I would not use powdercoat on a frame. Powdercoat is a "plastic" melted to the surface of the metal. To prep you would need to take everything to bare metal. As long as it is intact it'll do a good job of protecting, but if it ever gets a rock chip it'll start to fail. Moisture gets under it, rust starts, and frame problems. Powder coat can't be patched when it gets damaged, you've basically got to start over. Well frame is one place that it very likely to get hit by rocks and debris bouncing up off the road, especially a truck frame.

I would use paint, the big reasons are that prep is easier (for a basic paint job, not a show quality job) and it can be patched. For painting, just start with thoroughly cleaning the frame. Remove and/or treat any rusty areas, then prime and paint with a tough paint. Considering that it's a truck that is to be driven and used, I'd probably go with something like Rust-Oleum Farm & Implement paint. (Speaking @Rick W's language here) Stuff is tough and forgiving, and easy to touch up when/if it gets damaged. It'll chip just like powdercoat, but you can easily sand it out and give it a hit from a spray can to patch it up if need be.

As for storage and money. As someone said above, drive it as is for now. Regardless of what that shop said, you have been driving it with no problems. It's out of shape, but nothing that affects the operation or safety of the vehicle. Take some time to recouperate the bank account and shop for the best deal on a nice frame. In that time, decide if you really want to put more money into fixing it, and make arrangements for getting and storing the frame when the time comes.

I wouldn't rely on a shop to store it for me, could lead to other storage fees and problems. Give them the frame when you give them the truck. I have plenty of place to store stuff like that (and I'd be doing the work myself), but if I didn't I think I'd hire a storage rental that it would fit in before relying on the shop to store. If I were in your shoes, when I got the frame I'd drop it and the truck off ASAP for them to start. Still might sit at their place waiting for a bay to open, but it's there and ready for work to start. If that means waiting a few months for your accounts to recouperate before getting a frame, so be it. There's enough of these trucks out there, that there will be frames around.

In my defense, re: fluid film, I have no idea here in California this guy is or what they spray on the mountains there but you’re absolutely right, rustproofing the frame isn’t vital. My thing is just that both powder coat and paint flake off or get chipped off,, especially if the prep isn’t perfect, and then you end up with creeping rust where you thought you wouldn’t have any.
This guy is clearly stressed about his situation and I understand that… I’m just trying to advocate for a simple, low dollar solution to worries about rust . I am the resident cheapskate after all.

 

[SenorNoob]

Resident cheapskate? How far have gone to save a dollar on your truck? I mean I've done some questionable things myself.

 

[JoshT]

I haven’t been following this thread, but I get the gist...

...and that would be the reason I said the spell to summon the resident Rust-Oleum expert. FWIW the Farm & Implement come in non-spray version. I'd be most likely be painting with that, and using the spray can for later touch-ups.

Also I completely agree with @don1331's post. The damage in the video you posted is aft of the axle. All of that is in the aft frame section.

You do seem to be adverse to doing this work yourself. If this shop you're talking to won't do rear frame section only, shop around for another that will. You'd be better off doing it yourself if you can.

@pentode this guy is stressed because he doesn't know enough himself, and he's getting too many different responses from too many sources. I'm guilty of being one of those myself. I think I was the one that initially brought up the possibility of frame damage on his truck, and it has kind of spiraled from there. Some of those sources seem better than others, and from his position it would be kind of hard to determine which are which. Also, if I were going to do fluid film, it wouldn;t be done until after the repairs are complete, and I think I'd probably still do frame paint before the frame went in (assuming we're still on full frame replacement).

 

[pentode]

...and that would be the reason I said the spell to summon the resident Rust-Oleum expert. FWIW the Farm & Implement come in non-spray version. I'd be most likely be painting with that, and using the spray can for later touch-ups.

Also I completely agree with @don1331's post. The damage in the video you posted is aft of the axle. All of that is in the aft frame section.

You do seem to be adverse to doing this work yourself. If this shop you're talking to won't do rear frame section only, shop around for another that will. You'd be better off doing it yourself if you can.

@pentode this guy is stressed because he doesn't know enough himself, and he's getting too many different responses from too many sources. I'm guilty of being one of those myself. I think I was the one that initially brought up the possibility of frame damage on his truck, and it has kind of spiraled from there. Some of those sources seem better than others, and from his position it would be kind of hard to determine which are which. Also, if I were going to do fluid film, it wouldn;t be done until after the repairs are complete, and I think I'd probably still do frame paint before the frame went in (assuming we're still on full frame replacement).

Yes, I'm with you 100%. Maybe I took a step in the wrong direction but this was my way of trying to ease the stress and not end up with a $50,000 Ranger. Not that there's any wrong with that.