Just an idiot teenager who ruined his truck...

[Rangurr]

I apologize in advance for writing a novel on here but hopefully most of the information is helpful in finding my problem. If not, I'm sure it will at least help explain why things are the way they are on my truck. The short version: I was an idiot teenager when I did the work.

Basically, I got the truck as a 2wd 2.3L 5-speed commuter truck. That's all the intended purpose of the vehicle actually was. I, however, absolutely could not drive such a little truck. It's just not my style. So, I started off replacing things that needed to be replaced with bigger things such as my tires. If I remember correctly, I didn't really go big with tires at first - I just threw on some 28" or so Goodyear Wranglers. After that, I decided that wasn't even close to enough so I started doing things that flat did not need to be done... I wound up trading a black styleside bed to someone for a red flareside (that matched my truck) and the guy threw in some front lift springs, rear lift blocks, and a few other non-pertinent parts for this story. When I finally tore into the suspension I decided to go with Exploder leafs in the rear as well (gave an inch or two of lift over my worn out stock leaf springs. In the front, I went ahead and installed the springs without altering anything in the front end (everything I put in there was new from the control arms, balljoints, tierod ends, etc. etc.) These springs were only an inch longer than the stock springs but they were stiff enough that I couldn't use a jack under the control arm to install them. I literally had to hook on to the frame and compress the sucker...

After all of this work was completed I had added 4" of lift in the rear (2" from springs, 2" from blocks) and 3" of lift in the front (all from springs) - this actually made my truck level because the numbers I am throwing up there are difference from the truck as it sat on the worn out springs.

I noticed almost immediately that my alignment was wayyyyy off in the front end. The camber made me look like some jackass in a bmw or something. I fought it out as far as I could but still couldn't get the tires close to where they needed to be and, being an idiot teenager, I just decided 'hell with it' I'll drive it like this until something breaks and then I'll worry about it at that time.

^^^That was stupid.

So, I could hear the balljoints hitting from time to time and considered doing limit straps to hold them from bottoming out as they were but I never got around to it so those have been being hammered on for over 4 months now. They are actually still doing this currently but not as often - my springs are finally wearing down to a workable level.

The first actual mechanical problem that I had was my universals going out. I figured my truck had over 160,000 on her at that point so I didn't mind doing them. I didn't think of it at the time, but now that I look at it, it may have something to do with the new angle after lifting the back end (forgot to mention that the rear tires sit about an inch behind center in the wheel arches in the rear... and kind of in the front as well actually).

After doing the u-joints, I decided that I wanted wider stance as well so I threw on 2" wheel spacers (bearing killers). I mention this only because it may help pinpoint something in the bearings? I don't know...

Anyway - I offroad the truck at least twice a week and, one out of every two times, part of the offroading includes me hauling ass across a washboard road at about 65-70mph - not smart, still fun

As I was hauling across the road like this on Saturday, I felt the rear of my truck start to fishtail. I slowed it down a bit and continued at a lower speed. At this point the truck was, again, tracking straight so I didn't think much of it.... until I pulled up to the place I was going - about a half mile ahead. When I slowed down below 20, I felt the truck felt extremely sloppy so I pulled off to the side and found that my tire had blown out. Oops

Before the tire blew out the truck rode like crap considering the hd front springs, the rear coilover shocks, and the stiffer leaf springs. After it blew out, I threw the spare on (obviously) and left. The truck felt just fine below 60mph but at 60 I get massively bad vibrations.

I took the truck into the tire shop and had them retorque the wheel spacers, balance all of my tires, rotate them, and replace the blown tire. I was hoping that I had some mud stuck on the inside of the spare or something or that I had thrown a wheelweight or two but the rebalance didn't help. the thing still rides nice until 60 and then freaks out and vibrates down the road.

I haven't had any time to really diagnose anything with work and school starting...actually like an hour from now - but I plan to tear into things soon.

I've ruled out the wheels being off balance, things not being torqued, tire wear being screwed up, and the balljoints, despite what they've been going through, really don't seem bad to me. I highly doubt the universal joints because they are less than a month old but I haven't crawled under to check yet. My current guess is that I screwed something up in the axle when I blew that tire (it was the rear drivers side by the way).

If this is the case, I need to decide what to do. I guess I'll throw an Explorer axle under there since I want a L/S anyway and 4:10 gears. Maybe go back to stock springs up front and give up on the lift altogether and just keep my 31's as my lift? I really can't decide what to do. I would do a SAS if I could fund it on a college budget but I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon - especially for a 4cyl.

Thoughts? Opinions? Anyone happen to have stock 2wd springs or an Explorder rear with 4.10's and L/S?

Sorry - I know this was a lot to read but maybe it helped?

 

[1996xlt]

My guess would be a universal joint going by "rides nice until 60 and then freaks out and vibrates down the road." Or possibly (though unlikely), I think the drive shaft has weights welded to it to balance it and maybe one or more have come off.

Oh and you may want to get an alignment.

 

[4.0B2]

1. Get an alignment if it will align.. otherwise you might need drop brackets
2. doing 60 down washboard roads is hard on parts... so get used to replacing everything. I wouldn't be surprised if you need all new steering and suspension(bushings) and u-joints everywhere honestly.
3. get softer coils up front.. out back, do the chevy 63" leaf swap.

 

[kimcrwbr1]

Giving it that kind of beating you should probably replace engine and tranny/transfer mounts also and work your way out to the wheels?

 

[Rangurr]

I would love to replace the engine/teams - 4bt+Allison but that costs too much.
I tried to get it aligned after I took a shot at it and they couldn't get it any closer. Drop brackets are definitely needed... Any suggestions on specific drop brackets? Amy ideas about what the new vibration is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rangurr]

Oh, by the way - I forgot to mention that I did try to get it aligned and they couldn't do any more than I could. I will definitely need to do one of three things up front (if I want to keep my lift, but right now the truck sucks enough that I may just drop it back down and give up). I can go ahead and buy drop brackets for it - everything I have found so far is super expensive though, I can fabricate custom upper control arms that are longer than the stock ones - unless anyone here knows of a longer upper that I can use, or I can go ahead and put the stock springs back in - I'll need to buy some - and proceed to go ahead and do a spindle lift. I would definitely consider a SAS but this truck isn't worth it. I'll just save up and buy a real truck once I'm done with tuition (Planning to get an '06 with every goodie possible).

I checked my universals again today and they both feel nice and tight, I can also see the weights that were mentioned above. Everything looks and feels normal down there. I did notice that when the people at the tire place rotated my tires they went ahead and swapped everything clockwise so the badly worn tire from the drivers side front was on the passenger side so I threw the two new ones on the rear and the two better tires on the front and that helped the vibration quite a lot. I do still feel something wrong in the back end though. I'll look into it more tomorrow and hopefully give a good description to you guys assuming I can't figure it out myself.

I am having a new problem since I swapped the tires though. The front tire that I swapped now locks up if I apply the brakes very hard. Is this possibly due to over-torquing? I didn't take the time to do it right since I was being poured down on... I just cranked em as tight as I could..

 

[JoshT]

First thing to do is slow the **** down on those washboard roads. I know it may be fun but it's killing your truck and I'm not just talking about the suspension. If you want to drive like that on dirt roads, save your pennies and build the suspension to handle it.

For all we know you could still be an idiot teenager, you give no reference to time span so I have no idea how long you've been driving the truck in these conditions. So I'm not going to assume that these are recent events. I suspect that a few of things have happened over time and evolution of this truck.

1. Driving the truck like that has probably killed the front suspension again, especially with the bad alignment and if cheap parts were used. Check it out and replace bad/worn parts, then get an alignment. You may be able to install camber eccentrics to get aligned, or you may have to remove the lift.
   
2. Shocks are shot. With 3 and 4 inches of lift the stock length shocks are probably being run at or very near max extension, this kills them quick and makes for a very rough ride. They could even be limiting the lift you received from other mods. Get longer shocks or remove the lift.
   
3. Lots of axle wrap. Most Explorer springs have the same capacity as ranger springs, but have a lower spring rate due to the added height. This results in them being easier to flex which results in more axle wrap and body roll. Your lift blocks only made this worse. Lift blocks only make axle wrap worse regardless of the springs. I recommend getting rid of the lift blocks, cheap replacement would be extended/chevy shackles. (see Tech Library for more)
   
4. Sounds like the axle was moved back when Explorer leaf springs were installed. You may have installed the springs backwards, because the centering bolt is not centered in the spring. IIRC you want the shorter end of the spring towards the front. This could also affect pinion angle which can lead to shimming.
   
5. Broken sway bar end link. Doubt it, but it's possible. Would result in more sway and body roll in the rear end. If you've got no rear swaybar might want to think about adding one.
   
6. Wheel balance. I know you said you had them balanced but that type of road will knock a wheel weight off in a hurry.

Drop brackets aren't available for your suspension. Just be glad you're 2wd coil spring, 4wd of the same year only has one option for suspension. If you need to remove the suspension lift components, might look for a 2-3" body lift. It would be a cheap way to keep the tire clearance until you can afford a suspension lift.

 

[Rangurr]

Driving the truck like that has probably killed the front suspension again, especially with the bad alignment and if cheap parts were used. Check it out and replace bad/worn parts, then get an alignment. You may be able to install camber eccentrics to get aligned, or you may have to remove the lift.

I completely agree, driving the truck like that will break things VERY quickly. I'm really not concerned about killing most of the current stuff because that brings future upgrades. I am pretty sure, unfortunately, that I will have to take the lift away. When I got the truck aligned, I asked if there is any kit that I could use to push the camber out and they said no - as did several offroad shops that I talked to. Do you know of any specific kits I can use for this specific truck?

Shocks are shot. With 3 and 4 inches of lift the stock length shocks are probably being run at or very near max extension, this kills them quick and makes for a very rough ride. They could even be limiting the lift you received from other mods. Get longer shocks or remove the lift.

I did upgrade the front and rear shocks for longer extension when I did the lift. I believe I went 4 longer in the front and 3-5 in the rear just in case. The shocks still do a great job on all corners of the truck as of right now.

Lots of axle wrap. Most Explorer springs have the same capacity as ranger springs, but have a lower spring rate due to the added height. This results in them being easier to flex which results in more axle wrap and body roll. Your lift blocks only made this worse. Lift blocks only make axle wrap worse regardless of the springs. I recommend getting rid of the lift blocks, cheap replacement would be extended/chevy shackles. (see Tech Library for more)

I have thought about doing different shackles but have never gotten around to it. Actually, last time I had the bed off I noticed that the previous owner had actually flipped the rear shackles. I was going to quickly flip them back over but when I tried flipping them with the higher springs and the blocks, it was too much for the shocks and I needed the truck back on the road so I hurried and threw the bed on and left the shackles flipped over.I do plan on eventually - probably when I throw the Explorer axle under it - flipping them back over and losing the blocks. Do you think this could work as far as keeping the height? I figure removing the blocks will take 2.5" off but flipping the shackles back over will add about 3", but haven't done research to confirm yet.

Sounds like the axle was moved back when Explorer leaf springs were installed. You may have installed the springs backwards, because the centering bolt is not centered in the spring. IIRC you want the shorter end of the spring towards the front. This could also affect pinion angle which can lead to shimming.

Originally I installed them correctly and, at that point I noticed that the axle was not centered so I tried flipping them around and, with the springs flipped around, the rear tires were extending into bed territory. I then flipped them back around and left them because the rear springs were so shot (With 2 dirtbikes loaded the damn thing sat down on the bump stops). I agree with you about the pinion angle, I think this is why my U-joints went so quickly. I would have taken the time to account for that if I was not already planning for an Explorer or other rear axle - at which point I will take the time to get all angles set up correctly.

Broken sway bar end link. Doubt it, but it's possible. Would result in more sway and body roll in the rear end. If you've got no rear swaybar might want to think about adding one.

I was considering that as well while I was driving around the other day but, upon inspection, they were both just fine. The truck really doesn't sway hardly at all. Everything is far too stiff. I have thought about adding a rear sway bar for when I'm towing things - yes, I know I'm not treating this 4 popper 2wd like any logical person would treat it but it was cheap. Are the rear sway bars really as good as they sound or no?

Wheel balance. I know you said you had them balanced but that type of road will knock a wheel weight off in a hurry.

(I know that I have shaken several weights doing this in the past so I always check that first when something comes up. It usually ends up being a tossed weight or mud stuck on the inside of the rim, etc. I went and had them balanced after and have not been offroad since. I do feel like I should go road-force them myself as I don't really trust Discount Tire...

 

[JoshT]

First off, please don't use that green, it's hard to read against a white background. I do understand it was used to differentiate between your text and mine, but please pick a darker color next time. As you can see Red works great against a white background.

See there you've given us more information that you didn't before. So now we know that the truck also has a shackle flip, which means that PO was lowering the truck. Someone will reply to all that, or I will a little later. Right now I got to get to work.

 

[Rangurr]

First off, please don't use that green, it's hard to read against a white background. I do understand it was used to differentiate between your text and mine, but please pick a darker color next time. As you can see Red works great against a white background.

See there you've given us more information that you didn't before. So now we know that the truck also has a shackle flip, which means that PO was lowering the truck. Someone will reply to all that, or I will a little later. Right now I got to get to work.

I apologize if my green font was difficult to read. My TRS is all set up for black backgrounds so the green was by far the easiest to read; that's why I picked it.

There is so much crap that has gone on in this truck that it's hard to paint a complete picture the first time around. You guys should have a pretty good idea of what has gone on with the truck at this point though. Who knows, maybe a few other things will surface eventually but I can't think of any as of now.

 

[Rangurr]

Okay, so I have a theory worked up but I don't want to type it all down tonight. Nobody post tonight so that it doesn't look like I'm copying if y'all say the same thing. I think I figured out my problem (the rattling one at least)

Rangurr

 

[Rangurr]

Okay, so here are my thoughts: I think that, when the PO flipped the shackles that changed the yoke angle by a few degrees at the start but the axle stayed centered in the wheel arches. Because of this, his universals were out when I bought the truck. I then drove it for a while with no problems for a while until I threw lift blocks in. I'm assuming that the lift blocks, rather than extending straight down like they're supposed to, are extending backwards at an angle due to the shackles. This is the reason for my axle not being centered anymore. This also dragged the axle back and screwed with my yoke angle even more if I had to guess and that explains why my second set of u-joints failed so quickly. Now, I'm assuming that the angle is so screwed up that they have gone again. The only problem that I have with this assumption is that I can't really feel any play in the joints when I'm under the truck but I may check again because I agree with the 60mph being a universals problem plus it feels like it's coming from the center of the truck almost now that I've thrown some new tires on there.

Here's what I may try. This weekend, I will go ahead and pull the bed off, flip the shackles, and remove my lift blocks. This should center the axle, correct my yoke angle, and keep my lift the way that I like it. Then from there I'll further inspect the driveshaft/u-joints and I will see if there are any parts needing replacement or fixing. If it's out of balance, does anyone know where I can get it balanced or will I just need to get a new DS?

Sound like a good plan to everyone?

 

[doorgunner]

I red everythang.....


I can't comment right now................


I'm kinda dizzy !

 

[Rangurr]

Haha, this is a pretty complex problem... eh?

I'm thinking it's good for the truck's sake that my brain has turned on since I did all of this.... It's pretty sketchy

 

[doorgunner]

Haha, this is a pretty complex problem... eh?

I'm thinking it's good for the truck's sake that my brain has turned on since I did all of this.... It's pretty sketchy

Not really complicated...you seem to have released all the wabbits outta the cage at the same time & don't know which one to chase first

Maybe it's impossible---but you need to write down a goal for the truck knowing it's limitations & stick with it