Failing fuel injectors - E85 to blame?

TimS · Jul 20, 2008

I have a 99 Ranger (3L Flex-Fuel) with 82k and started using E85 about 2 months ago. Two weeks ago I was coming home from work and it started running really rough, especially at low RPM. The check engine light did not illuminate. I noticed some loss in power as well. When I got home I started taking off plug wires and when I removed #5 it had no effect. I tore it apart and found that the fuel injector on cylinder #5 had no ohms of resistance (the needle on my voltmeter wouldn't even jiggle). So, I replaced #5 fuel injector (and plenum gasket and all spark plugs and plug wires) and everything was great...until today when it started running exactly the same way... When I removed #5 plug wire this time it ran rougher (so that's not my problem cylinder), but when I removed #6 it made no difference. Granted this is an assumption but before I'm able to tear it down I'm going to assume that I'm going to find no ohms on #6. What is causing my fuel injectors to fail? If they we're getting plugged I'd blame the E85, but with the loss of electrical continuity inside the injector I'm totally puzzled. Any help would be much appreciated!

Big Jim M · Jul 20, 2008

The e85 will (use MIGHT) cause certain rubber or plastic parts to melt or otherwise go south...but hardned injectors? And the lectric parts at that? Nope! It ain't the e85 that is jinxing you.
AND as of the writing you havn't yet found the injector to be the problem. First thing I'd do is to swap wires and plugs to another cylinder to see if it was the wire or plug giving the problem.
How were the plugs you took out the first time? Were they stock? Did you replace with stock plugs? If using other than absolute stock parts you can expect poor service from different plugs that may be available at the parts house.
Big JIm

TimS · Jul 20, 2008

I used strictly stock parts (the plugs I took out the first time were original and all worn out but evenly worn/same color, etc).

Update: I tested the fuel injector in question and it read 16 ohms. I figured I must have been mistaken but just in case tested my other 5 injectors, all of which read exactly 17.9 ohms. Doesn't seem like much of a variance until I consider that the other five had no variance. So...my wife will be back with the parts this afternoon and we'll see what happens.

I'll repost when I have more data.

almostclueless · Jul 20, 2008

Unless your fuel contains something that could actually eat the varnish off the injector coils (very unlikely), it sounds like either the injector coils are failing by themselves (old age?), or the PCM is killing them (keeping excessive current on them).

It may be time to take it to a dealer who can fully diagnose this...might be cheaper than potentially replacing parts over and over.

MrE_Powers · Jul 20, 2008

did you try a new fuel filter. i would imagine that the fuel system got stuff built up over the years and e85 broke it loose.

Bob Ayers · Jul 20, 2008

Running E-85 will cause a longer pulse width on the injectors, but the injectors should be able to handle the longer pulse.

Ranger44 · Jul 20, 2008

The newer injectors last a long time. 82some K isn't anything.

TimS · Jul 20, 2008

Well, won't find out today. No one (advance, autozone, napa) has fuel injectors - must not be too big of a problem or they'd be in stock so they could sell them. I am taking to the dealer on Wed for suspension work and will have them look into the PCM. I will update as soon as I know anything. Thanks everyone for your help - still open to ideas though!

TimS · Jul 21, 2008

It is fixed - it was another electrically bad fuel injector. So now the question is: why have I had two fuel injectors fail electrically this month? When I was at the dealer this morning I mentioned it to service and he shrugged his shoulders. Also my Dad is retired from a dealer and called up his old cohorts and they can't come up with anything either.

fixizin · Jul 21, 2008

I blame everything on E85, and I've never used a drop of it in my Flex Ranger, lol.

The guys on the financial networks blame everything on E85 (ethanol) too, from high commodity prices to creeping socialism. Apparently it's evil six ways from Sunday... that's mah story and I'm stickin' to it.

Seriously, your injectors probably are all from the same mfg. lot, made on the same day, and, of course, they're all getting used up at exactly the same rate... still, gotta wonder what stirred up dirt in the fuel might do to exacerbate the issue.

Bob Ayers · Jul 21, 2008

fixizin said:
I blame everything on E85, and I've never used a drop of it in my Flex Ranger, lol.

The guys on the financial networks blame everything on E85 (ethanol) too, from high commodity prices to creeping socialism. Apparently it's evil six ways from Sunday... that's mah story and I'm stickin' to it.

Seriously, your injectors probably are all from the same mfg. lot, made on the same day, and, of course, they're all getting used up at exactly the same rate... still, gotta wonder what stirred up dirt in the fuel might do to exacerbate the issue.

"Getting used up"....what do you think is getting used up? Next, the fuel does not come in contact with the coil in the injector, so dirt in the fuel is not an issue at all.

fixizin · Jul 21, 2008

"Getting used up"....what do you think is getting used up?

Uh, a moving part in contact with a stationary part? Return springs? Or either part in contact with a high pressure stream of a mildly erosive/corrosive petrochemical... IIRC a similar action wore out simple old carb jets... eventually.

Next, the fuel does not come in contact with the coil in the injector, so dirt in the fuel is not an issue at all.

Well: a) that's TYPICALLY true, but we've already got consensus that 2 injectors going kaput in the same week at only 82k mi. is A-typical;
b) we're getting it third-hand that it's an "electrical" failure;
c) the "does not come in contact" aspect depends on separation provided by seals and/or very thin walls of man-made materials, assembled by the same folks (FoMoCo) who brought you the DPFE and PVH hubs. Yes I realize well the price constraints in building a Ranger, but there's a reason FoMoCo is not in the implantable medical devices industry, lol. ;')

Bob Ayers · Jul 22, 2008

fixizin said:
"Getting used up"....what do you think is getting used up?

Uh, a moving part in contact with a stationary part? Return springs? Or either part in contact with a high pressure stream of a mildly erosive/corrosive petrochemical... IIRC a similar action wore out simple old carb jets... eventually.

Next, the fuel does not come in contact with the coil in the injector, so dirt in the fuel is not an issue at all.

Well: a) that's TYPICALLY true, but we've already got consensus that 2 injectors going kaput in the same week at only 82k mi. is A-typical;
b) we're getting it third-hand that it's an "electrical" failure;
c) the "does not come in contact" aspect depends on separation provided by seals and/or very thin walls of man-made materials, assembled by the same folks (FoMoCo) who brought you the DPFE and PVH hubs. Yes I realize well the price constraints in building a Ranger, but there's a reason FoMoCo is not in the implantable medical devices industry, lol. ;')

You absolutely don't know what you are talking about, and are not familiar with the construction of electronic fuel injectors at all! I think the fact that he measured the coil resistance and it was open is definately an electrical failure!

TimS · Jul 22, 2008

So I've been reading on the internet and now I'm dangerous. Let's say there's varnish in the system of the truck. Now lets say that the E85 ate it off the walls and deposited it in my 1-2 year old fuel filter and and my fuel pressure is too low... and let's say I've got one or two injectors that are clogged up... the computer's response would be to open up the pulse width to allow enough fuel in to get rid of the extra O2 being sensed by the O2 sensor, which means that the injectors are working harder (and I've got 4 cylinders running rich). The injectors staying open (meaning they're running hotter) to make up for the bad ones and also to make up for the low fuel pressure are failing prematurely because of all the heat. Plus they're working extra hard by allowing more 25% more fuel in since I'm burning the E85. Does this sound plausible?

Maybe the E85 would completely dissolve any varnish and has totally cleaned up the entire fuel system and the above it totally wrong...

Plus there's no sign of low fuel pressure (no miss at higher rpm under load)...

Also, I like Bob's thing about the truck mods...

almostclueless · Jul 22, 2008

I dont remember if the coil in bosch injectors is usually submerged in fuel or not. If it is, I could see fuel eventually eating the insulation.

Either way, there is small amounts of movement in solenoid coils from mechanical load and vibration....that could fracture them or strip the insulation off of them over time.

Incidentally, when a cylinder is dead, the engine works harder, and the engine will get more fuel despite the O2 sensors, through the adaptive nature of the computer.

Failing fuel injectors - E85 to blame?

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