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EFI problems.....?


The 'spare' I had measured 0.6 at idle and 4.7 at WOT. = Mostly pass?
It should run fine like this.

Is this engine Speed density? I thought the 90 town cars were Mass air. Was that video of a warm start or cold. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on with the background noise but it looks like it ran well for about 30 seconds, started missing and then died.
 
what sytem are you running exactly? was it all from the same vehicle?



if your running a maf system with no air meter then its not gonna run well after warmup...generally wont run before so that does not seem likely.


but i cant see or hear what you have. so no way to tell.

but...code reader? a 40 dollar code reader isnt worth buying, not on an obd1.


i just switch the sto to ground and watch the check engine light light. did you hook up the light? if you didnt just use a test light.


checking the o2's at the pins where they interface with the pcm is what you want to do, at least you know they work off the car, plug them in and run the car and see what they are reporting at the pcm.

buying a fuel pressure gauge is what you want to do with obd1, not a stupid base tester imo as the money spent on the fuel pressure gauge is better spent, where base code retrival is free.

if this is a mechanical issue then you have one thing, if it is an efi issue, from what you have reported it seems its all in closed loop.

so map sensor will be key for sd and maf for maf.


what exactly do you have system wise with pcm code, and how did you wire it to the oem harness?



also, the spark plug test should be after a cylinder balance test which your pcm should run. do that test and get all codes so far before any reset, and then reset, run and recode.

this will go a ways towards isolating issues.
 
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Is this engine Speed density? I thought the 90 town cars were Mass air. Was that video of a warm start or cold. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on with the background noise but it looks like it ran well for about 30 seconds, started missing and then died.


Speed Density.

Warm start, but the computer was not 'freash', I had run it 2 times before, and the first time it runs better for longer, but ends up doing the same thing. The background noise is the shop exhaust fan for engine exhaust.

IDK how it goes from running to missing bad enough to kill itself is such short order. It has factory plug wires, lol. perhaps those need replaced? They say 1990 right on them.


what sytem are you running exactly? was it all from the same vehicle?
if your running a maf system with no air meter then its not gonna run well after warmup...generally wont run before so that does not seem likely.

but i cant see or hear what you have. so no way to tell.

but...code reader? a 40 dollar code reader isnt worth buying, not on an obd1.

i just switch the sto to ground and watch the check engine light light. did you hook up the light? if you didnt just use a test light.


checking the o2's at the pins where they interface with the pcm is what you want to do, at least you know they work off the car, plug them in and run the car and see what they are reporting at the pcm.

buying a fuel pressure gauge is what you want to do with obd1, not a stupid base tester imo as the money spent on the fuel pressure gauge is better spent, where base code retrival is free.

if this is a mechanical issue then you have one thing, if it is an efi issue, from what you have reported it seems its all in closed loop.

so map sensor will be key for sd and maf for maf.

what exactly do you have system wise with pcm code, and how did you wire it to the oem harness?

also, the spark plug test should be after a cylinder balance test which your pcm should run. do that test and get all codes so far before any reset, and then reset, run and recode.

this will go a ways towards isolating issues.

I am running SpeedDensity from a 90's towncar. STOCK, all from the same donor car, I got the whole car from the pick_n_pull.

I know which wire is the check engine light, I will have to wire a bulb to it.

I will follow some wires from the O2 sensors to the EEC, (when you say PCM do you mean EEC? engine computer?)

Fuel pressure gauge is on the list.

When does it switch over TO closed loop? What can I test to see when it is switching over?

I have my MAP hooked to manifold vacuum and plugged in.

I hooked up about 12 wires to the OEM harness. I have it all written on a PDF document, I could post/share it if I knew some way to make it available for public download. Otherwise you have to PM me your email and I can sent you my 'answer key'.

IDK what you mean by spark plug test, (Pull them off one at a time and see what changes?) and IDK what a cylinder balance test are either.


THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT!!
 
poppin the plug wires off looking for a dead cylinder can be similarly done with the pcm(eec)...it will do it for you after you get the engine codes while the engine is running. you wait for all the codes to come back, and then run it to wide open throttle for a second and let it do its thing, it will then report back what cylinder/s if any is/are being a lazy bastards. that will help guide you if you have some sort of injector issue or where to look for low compression ect.



generally after 2 minutes it goes closed, you know its doing this cause thats when it runs like ass.

how does the vacuum look? should be pullin 16 or so with no flutter.


did you hook pin 30 up to crank power? this can be important for full run, but it varies. and i dont know why. we had some great dt's here too its all in the base program the way i understand it. its possible the o2 harness isnt grounded along with the heater circuit not having key on power if it is having issues fueling due to o2 information.

so knowing how its hooked up is pretty much necessary.
 
AirChargePressure = ACP

BarrometicPressure = BP sensor

I dont know if I have these installed. I dont recall them. Where do they normally live in relation to the engine??

Could I even run I didn't have them?
 
:icon_confused: were those the codes you retrieved?


air charge temperature? i dont remember any charge air pressure sensor on a vic?

that temperature sensor will be in the filter box on many, it is on the manifold for some(all ho)...it will need to know that one to help with proper fueling.


bp? you have direct vacuum to the map sensor? if by some chance you have a check valve inline or a restrictor slowly bleeding off/on?

you should have just map on this application and no bp, it takes bp when it powers up for reference.
 
:icon_confused: were those the codes you retrieved?

air charge temperature? i dont remember any charge air pressure sensor on a vic?

that temperature sensor will be in the filter box on many, it is on the manifold for some(all ho)...it will need to know that one to help with proper fueling.

bp? you have direct vacuum to the map sensor? if by some chance you have a check valve inline or a restrictor slowly bleeding off/on?

you should have just map on this application and no bp, it takes bp when it powers up for reference.


They are sensors that are talked about in the Ford published service manuals that are supposed to be on this car/engine.

As I understand it, SpeedDensity makes it decisions based on the SPEED of the engine, (volume of air) and the DENSITY of the air in the atmosphere. To solve for density it needs pressure and temperature. Those two sensors are responsible for giving that information to the engine.

It may solve for density by using the ManifoldAirPressure sensor. I dont know. I dont know enough about the inner workings of this computer. It's all just math, but WHAT variables are used! argh.
 
This looks to be a closed loop issue. Now the question is, is it a sensor, the wiring or the EEC. Seeing that you transplanted the wiring from a donor car, you could have a broken wire someplace. Any luck with codes?
 
AirChargePressure = ACP

BarrometicPressure = BP sensor

I dont know if I have these installed. I dont recall them. Where do they normally live in relation to the engine??

Could I even run I didn't have them?

When I said ACP i ment ACT, AirChargeTemp. Goes into the air routeing on the lower intake manifold, driverside front-ish.
Apparently BP sensor is for California emissions only.

buying a fuel pressure gauge is what you want to do with obd1, not a stupid base tester imo as the money spent on the fuel pressure gauge is better spent, where base code retrival is free.
Check your fuel pressure also we had problems similar to that and fuel filter and fuel tank was gummed up. Fuel pressure would gradually fall off you need between 35 and 45 pounds of pressure.

FUEL PRESSURE for the win! The $5000 code reader my neighbor has told us nothing. gave me code 11 = system pass, and code 85 = something to do with emmisions BS. The carbon can was open or something erroneous. All systems checked out, and gave proper readings, just as I knew they would, because I had tested them all on the bench. Everything electrical performed just as anticipated. I remain skeptical of the code reader system.

What should fuel pressure be? lol. 40 psi correct? Well mine is 110!!!!!!

This MIGHT lead to overfueling eh?

I'm blaming the regulator. We took the return line off and pressured up the fuel system and NOTHING CAME OUT. The only way out of the fuel rail is INTO the engine. um, problem. New regulator tomorrow!
 
bap on s/d needs vac and becomes map.if maf bap sensor must be hooked up electricly and not to vac,just to air
iat(act) is in the #5 intake runner on obdI systems.it can work fine in airbox and intake tube though.
is timing advancing,is spout hooked up and working?is coolant sensor hooked up?
 
bap on s/d needs vac and becomes map.if maf bap sensor must be hooked up electricly and not to vac,just to air
iat(act) is in the #5 intake runner on obdI systems.it can work fine in airbox and intake tube though.
is timing advancing,is spout hooked up and working?is coolant sensor hooked up?

Thanks for your input! Although I find it hard to read, thanks.

BAP becomes MAP, that makes sense. I have my MAP sensor hooked to manifold vacume and plugged in. It passed test on the bench and works properly.

ALL my sensors passed bench testing. Thats what was so frustrating.

Yes the ACT sensor is on the cylinder 5 runner on the lower manifold.

Timeing is advaced 10deg, SPOUT and all ingition wiring checks out and appears to being working properly.

Engine coolant temp sensor passes bench test and running testing, and is hooked up. Conveniently I have a spare that was a sending unit for the electric gauge in the TownCar.

O2 sensors also check out, the are about 0.05 volts different. But I dont consider that a problem.

NEW FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR GOING ON TONIGHT!!!! wootwoot!! Then the VROOOMAGE!!!
 
I believe what he is indicating is that the MAP sensor is the BAP, and if it were switched over to a MAF PCM, you would essentially want to keep the MAP installed and plugged in electrically, but you could remove the vacuum. This is exactly how my 2.9L is setup right now with MAF conversion. I tried to remove it entirely, but it wasn't too happy about that.

Pete
 
I believe what he is indicating is that the MAP sensor is the BAP, and if it were switched over to a MAF PCM, you would essentially want to keep the MAP installed and plugged in electrically, but you could remove the vacuum. This is exactly how my 2.9L is setup right now with MAF conversion. I tried to remove it entirely, but it wasn't too happy about that.

Pete

Gotch'a

I tried to remove it entirely, but it wasn't too happy about that.
lol
 
uh yeah...110 psi is slightly not good for anything you should be at 36-38,and map and bap are the same part. it just depends on whether the hose is on it or not
 
Timeing is advaced 10deg, SPOUT and all ingition wiring checks out and appears to being working properly.

monitor timming,what is it cold?what is it hot? after its running like crap.leave spout connected and report back it should be about 22-26 cold and 16-20 warm. with a non spout base idle of 12-14 btdc

ps check low oil sensor and low coolant sensor just for kicks these can cause warm issues but usually shut down the system ,not limp it
 
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