why dual sump oil pan

[cosp]

hey guys i have looked everywhere in here and all i can see is you can't use a front sump oil pan and need to use a dual sump but why? does the motor not sit low enough? please explain to me because I am debating cuting out and putting in a cross member from a car that has front sump. or fabricating my own.

 

[Mudhound]

One of the biggest reasons for the dual sump pan is that it allows the motor to be set back farther to the firewall, along with clearing the exsisting engine cradle sufficently to set the motor low enough to fit well. A front sump pan will hit the engine crossmember, plus cause the motor to set WAY forward, most likely to the point of forcing you to run a rear mounted radiator, along with disrupting the front/rear balance more than the dual sump would. This part comes down to a "applied leverage" thing, as a weight mounted farther forward tends to make the truck even more nose heavy, and have a bad tendency to understeer.

 

[baddad457]

The dual sump just plain fits the crossmember better. And actually, this isn't really a dual sump, the front "sump" is actually space created to house the oil pump. And there's no justification for replacing the crossmember to accomodate a front sump pan. The dual sump wasn't a Mustang only item. It was used on all Ford/Lincoln and Merc cars that had a 5.0 engine, beginning in 1979 with the Mustang and with the rest in 1980 (with the lone exception of the 80 Granada/Monarch/Versailles) There are thousands of these cars in junkyards now to choose from. And if you're in need of one to work with an earlier block that lacks a dipstick hole, the 79=80 pans had the dipstick in the pan. These can be bought new from your local parts house. These are the only hard to find (in a junkyard) pans in the dual sump design

 

[cosp]

That being said then why dont people just cut out the rivets and move the cross member back? I know the i beams attach to it but if I was going to do equal length beams anyway then I wouldn't need the existing ibeam location on the crossmember. It just seems more logical to me. Then we eliminate the dual sump that is hard to use with a block that has the dipstick in it already, or is hard to find one with the dipstick in the pan OR is about 200 bucks to buy online not including the different style oil pump and pick up tube required. Anyone have any thoughts that would turn this idea down?

 

[Teddyzee]

Uh, yes...

Dual sump pans are readily available (all the styles), cheap, and easy.
Custom crossmembers and custom ibeams are not particulaly cheap or easy.

That is certainly something you could do (post pics), but it's similar to asking "why do you guys run a small block Ford? Couldn't you just put a blown Hemi in there on a custom round tube chassis?". Yes, we could, but that would not be the same as a simple engine swap.

Let us know how it truns out.

 

[1mean02hd]

The double sump pan with the dipstick in it is the rare one. Most 302s/5.0s you will find in the junkyard are the later ones with the dipstick in the side anyway. Moving the crossmember and re-engineering the front suspension is WAY too much work to do just for an engine swap. Plus if you plan to make any power with your truck you would benefit more from a rear/dual sump pan anyway. The truck transfers weight to the rear and the oil sloshes to the back of the pan.
Stock dual sump pans are SUPER cheap anyway... like less than $50 brand new. Just remember with projects and I had to teach myself this this- K.I.S.S.... Keep It Simple Stupid. The more overthinking you do is less time that your truck can be together and running. Overthinking will create a neverending project.

 

[fordmike1]

That being said then why dont people just cut out the rivets and move the cross member back? I know the i beams attach to it but if I was going to do equal length beams anyway then I wouldn't need the existing ibeam location on the crossmember. It just seems more logical to me. Then we eliminate the dual sump that is hard to use with a block that has the dipstick in it already, or is hard to find one with the dipstick in the pan OR is about 200 bucks to buy online not including the different style oil pump and pick up tube required. Anyone have any thoughts that would turn this idea down?

Sounds like you need to just forget about the V8 swap and keep the engine you have in it now. If you are having a hard time with trying to figure out the major oil pan problem then the rest of the swap is way out of your league.

 

[cosp]

Sounds like you need to just forget about the V8 swap and keep the engine you have in it now. If you are having a hard time with trying to figure out the major oil pan problem then the rest of the swap is way out of your league.

fordmike why the %$#@ would you say something like that? All I am trying to do is find a more logical way for things that I am trying to do. So you need to get your little panties out of a bundle and calm your @$$ down! Your probably one of those punk incalescent know-it-alls aren't you that just throws shit together without even thinking about it. Keep in mind dude that this forum is for people that are searching for sufficent information to do a swap and trying to eliminate/calculate every possible bad/good idea they come across. So to you who want to be d!#@s just leave this forum, and leave it to the rest of the people that answered my question informally with respect.

 

[COPPERHEAD85]

I dont think he was trying to be a dick..............he has done the swap.
It's just a little tough love if you know what I mean.
Just my 2.
I run the double myself.worked out great.Came from a Crown Vic.My block has the dip stick in it so that was not an issue.

I would rather have my jewels slammend in a sliding glass door than to move the X-member.

 

[Mac]

Sure Mike is being a little bit rough on you! The logical thing to do is do what several have told you to do, get the right pan and don't even think about moving the front crossmember and really screwing things up. You asked for advice and now you don't like the sound advice they gave you - Sorry!
Dave

 

[baddad457]

fordmike why the %$#@ would you say something like that? All I am trying to do is find a more logical way for things that I am trying to do. So you need to get your little panties out of a bundle and calm your @$$ down! Your probably one of those punk incalescent know-it-alls aren't you that just throws shit together without even thinking about it. Keep in mind dude that this forum is for people that are searching for sufficent information to do a swap and trying to eliminate/calculate every possible bad/good idea they come across. So to you who want to be d!#@s just leave this forum, and leave it to the rest of the people that answered my question informally with respect.

The only "DICK" here is you. YOU'RE the only one trying to come up with an expensive and complicated solution to a simple to figure problem. If you can't take the heat from this, then YOU need to leave. We've all done our swaps. Where's your's at ?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

That being said then why dont people just cut out the rivets and move the cross member back? I know the i beams attach to it but if I was going to do equal length beams anyway then I wouldn't need the existing ibeam location on the crossmember. It just seems more logical to me. Then we eliminate the dual sump that is hard to use with a block that has the dipstick in it already, or is hard to find one with the dipstick in the pan OR is about 200 bucks to buy online not including the different style oil pump and pick up tube required. Anyone have any thoughts that would turn this idea down?

I have found myself with two of the stupid pans without really trying, nabbed one for like $10 or $20 on craigslist and got another one with an engine... Summit has a Ford Racing kit for the later engines with the block entry dipstick that comes with a pan, gasket, pickup, main cap stud, dipstick and dipstick tube for $100.

Of course I need the rare one with the dipstick in it anyway.

 

[fordmike1]

fordmike why the %$#@ would you say something like that? All I am trying to do is find a more logical way for things that I am trying to do. So you need to get your little panties out of a bundle and calm your @$$ down! Your probably one of those punk incalescent know-it-alls aren't you that just throws shit together without even thinking about it. Keep in mind dude that this forum is for people that are searching for sufficent information to do a swap and trying to eliminate/calculate every possible bad/good idea they come across. So to you who want to be d!#@s just leave this forum, and leave it to the rest of the people that answered my question informally with respect.

Why would I say what I did??? Did you not read or listen to what everyone before me posted? And yet you still are trying to reinvent the wheel. Its pretty obvious who has their panties in a wad here. And as for me being some punk, I am a ASE master tech. that has been building cars for over 25 years and racing them. I currently have a mustang that I built and sponcer for a guy that makes just over 840HP (dyno proven) and have my V8 ranger running at this time, DO YOU?? I dont Know it all and I have learned a few things on here myself. To all the regulars and their knowledge on here.

 

[cosp]

u know what mike thats fine. but the remark was not necessary. everyone else thanks for the advice though, moving the x-member is a bad idea. THAT IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR!