why all "water car/hydrogen generators" are scams

[Bent Bolt]

Has anyone used a scan tool and look at what the O2 sensors and fuel trims are doing ?? That'll say a lot as to what is going on in the engine.


Of course , one would have to know how to interpret the information.

 

[Psychopete]

Thus when hydrogen is introduced into the system, it now must work with the gasoline in how much volume the two take up. An equilibrium must be reached. This is why the more hydrogen you can get into your system, the better, because it means less room for gasoline to work with. This is why I do not trust the article by allen or whoever his name was from popular mechanics.

This doesn't make any sense. All he was pointing out is that the injector timing didn't change. That means that the engine was still spraying the same amout of fuel, it didn't spray less gas with the machine on. There was no fuel savings, because the injector timing was the same as when it was off.

For example, was there was not enough hydrogen generated? As has been stated there is a range that the o2 sensor will accept as is related to how rich or lean the engine will be allowed to burn before the computerized equipment kicks in. This is what makes me think not enough hydrogen was generated, there simply was not enough to make a noticeable impact. A catalyst is needed.

Are you kidding? Look at his machine. I would trust his results over any home brewed-thrown together PVC contraption. They put way more effort into building and testing than you've provided so far.

Since you're so well verse on this subject, what is the acceptable amount of hydrogen that is needed? How do you know that your machine is creating the appropriate amount (whatever that is)? And how did you come up with your conclusions on the amount of hydrogen needed to meet the "equilibrium" that you refered to in your last post?

Pete

 

[BeefStew42791]

This doesn't make any sense. All he was pointing out is that the injector timing didn't change. That means that the engine was still spraying the same amout of fuel, it didn't spray less gas with the machine on. There was no fuel savings, because the injector timing was the same as when it was off.



Are you kidding? Look at his machine. I would trust his results over any home brewed-thrown together PVC contraption. They put way more effort into building and testing than you've provided so far.

Since you're so well verse on this subject, what is the acceptable amount of hydrogen that is needed? How do you know that your machine is creating the appropriate amount (whatever that is)? And how did you come up with your conclusions on the amount of hydrogen needed to meet the "equilibrium" that you refered to in your last post?

Pete

Yes, BUT the injector does not spray fuel directly into the cylinder. It sprays it into the air stream, unless your talking diesel. When the valve opens both the air and fuel parts of the air/fuel mixture enter the cylinder. This is not controlled by any electronic means, strictly mechanical inline with the engine timing. This means that because the hydrogen takes up volume in the air mixture it restricts the amount of fuel being taken into the engine.

As for his machine, yep..I looked at it. He has a picture of it sitting on the floor in his shop. He gave NO details about it or the vehicle he ran it on or about his "results". So based on the lack of data presented in his testing how can one trust it?

For this answer I'll refer to natural gas harvesting. You cannot buy a "gallon" of natural gas, it is sold in gallon equivalents. Therefore to know how much hydrogen needs to be produced to run an engine specifically on hydrogen, an equivalent to a gallon of gasoline must be established, which has already been done (one kilogram) but the question discussed is not how to run specifically on hydrogen, but to use hydrogen and gasoline together. So again, obviously you wouldn't need to produce an entire kilogram. And how do you know that your producing enough? Very simple, whether it works or not. Obviously if it doesn't work, your not producing enough hydrogen. As far as an equilibrium goes: to double your mpg the desire is to use half the petrol. So you need to then be able to compensate that unused fuel in order to operate under the same conditions (it goes without saying that if you run your engine at 4-5000 rpm and only produce enough hydrogen for 1000 your not making enough).

 

[MAKG]

So, you think this is a "scientific discussion?" I've had quite a few of those; this doesn't qualify. This is science FICTION. It's like asking how warp drive works.

And, yep, you've made a huge pile of misguided statements. You're starting with random terms thrown together in meaningless ways, and drawing "conclusions" from it. Garbage in, garbage out.

Do us all -- including yourself -- a favor, and study the basics of stoichiometry and energy conservation, BEFORE you draw any more "conclusions" from this bovine defacation.

 

[BeefStew42791]

And once again you have not addressed any of my statements OR given examples as to how I do not "understand" the topic being discussed and how I have been as you say 'throwing random terms together in meaningless ways'. Perhaps they're meaningless to you because you failed to take the time to actually read the posts. Any discussion involving science is a scientific discussion.

I hardly see how eye-witness accounts can be misguided claims, plus all the testing and recording done in experimenting with the unit I worked on. I don't even need to respond to the next thing you said, I believe that is where you'll find the pile of garbage your talking about.

 

[MAKG]

No, it's mental masturbation.

It's not science if energy conservation doesn't apply.

If you want personal tutoring, it's $40/hour. You've been given enough free stuff already.

 

[rboyer]

So, you think this is a "scientific discussion?" I've had quite a few of those; this doesn't qualify. This is science FICTION. It's like asking how warp drive works.

Didn't you know? All you have to do is send some heated plasma through some warp coils!

 

[BlackBII]

Didn't you know? All you have to do is send some heated plasma through some warp coils!

I thought it was iced plasma?

 

[BeefStew42791]

w/e maybe for you.

And thats not the ONLY part of science. It is a large part of it, but science is not limited to only that. Science is in fact the study of discovered pieces of the physical world and the drive to further understand the unknown.

FYI I'm the one who clearly explained all terms used, I don't need tutoring. When you run out of gas on the side of the highway and I'm still goin cuz I only used half of what you did I'll be sure to wave as I go by

 

[BlackBII]

w/e maybe for you.

And thats not the ONLY part of science. It is a large part of it, but science is not limited to only that. Science is in fact the study of discovered pieces of the physical world and the drive to further understand the unknown.

FYI I'm the one who clearly explained all terms used, I don't need tutoring. When you run out of gas on the side of the highway and I'm still goin cuz I only used half of what you did I'll be sure to wave as I go by

Lol

Do you really think MAKG was looking for a definition of 'Science'?

I have been following this thread, but not posting.

It just doesn't all add up man. It takes more energy to make hydrogen that hydrogen is good for. How could that be beneficial?

 

[lifted4.0]

how do you all say it takes more engergy to make hydrogen to supplement gasoline......you already paid for your battery...everytime you turn your car on, your paying for your battery, sooooo?? how is it not benefital? its not strain on the cars these days...

yes i tried it...and i got 24 mpg in my 2003 ford ranger 4.0L manual.....and dont anyone tell me i changed my driving habits, cause thats a load of shit....i might of changed them by shifting 500 rpms higher, sure, but not lower...or maybe i stopped at 1 fewer stop signs? dont give me that excuse. and yes i was getting just over 20mpg before i tried this

that all compares to the 18 mpg a friend gets with his 2004 ford ranger 4.0L manual...not the same car, but close...

although the engine has seem to caught up to the hydrogen being added..i have since gone back down to about 20mpg untill i make the needed adjustments



everyone says "theres no such thing as a free lunch", well ya!! and in this case, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT!

 

[Psychopete]

everyone says "theres no such thing as a free lunch", well ya!! and in this case, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT!

You're right, and it comes right out of the gas tank. The battery isn't an endless supply of power.

Pete

 

[rboyer]

how do you all say it takes more engergy to make hydrogen to supplement gasoline......you already paid for your battery...everytime you turn your car on, your paying for your battery, sooooo?? how is it not benefital? its not strain on the cars these days...

You don't realize one important thing. It takes energy to make energy. The more power you draw means the more fuel required to make that power, it's not like there is a set amount of electrical energy that's always on tap in your vehicle. I bet you also think that running the air conditioning doesn't cost you fuel mileage? Tell me these two things, What is the constant amp draw of your hydrogen generator? And how many LPM does it produce?

 

[lifted4.0]

mhm what your saying is its putting more stress on the alternator right? what you say thats where i have paid for it?

but what i dont understand is, why didnt putting a subwoofer (dont know the amps being pulled by that) and foglights (thats like 5 amps) decrease my gas mileage, if thats the case?

just trying to get answers for that one, dont go blabing on about how im an idiot

 

[James Denton]

You don't realize one important thing. It takes energy to make energy. The more power you draw means the more fuel required to make that power, it's not like there is a set amount of electrical energy that's always on tap in your vehicle. I bet you also think that running the air conditioning doesn't cost you fuel mileage? Tell me these two things, What is the constant amp draw of your hydrogen generator? And how many LPM does it produce?

20 AMP DRAW-----1.7 LPM