Trying to diagnose hard shifting in M5OD

[Pronto285]

I've owned a 98 ranger 2.5l with the M5OD for about 6 months. It was given to me for free by an old boss, and it's really turned me around on these little trucks. Obviously it can't tow like my old 5.4 f150, but it gets decent mpg and I don't have any problems as long as I stay away from short on ramps.

But recently I've been having some pretty serious issues shifting into 2nd and 1st. 2nd has been an issue for a while, but until recently all I had to do was sort of apply gentle pressure for a second and it would glide right it. Now 1st and 2nd are both very difficult to shift into after the first 5 minutes of driving. They both shift fine when the truck is off, but it's a proper PITA when I'm moving. They don't grind, it's just like I'm hitting a wall. This happens when rolling as well as stopped. The clutch was replaced 6 months ago, as was the slave cylinder, and my ATF is topped off, just checked it yesterday.

I'm fairly handy with a wrench, but when it comes to transmissions and the guts of an engine, I'm pretty out of my depths. I've been trawling forums online for about a week, and from what I've read it's either the slave cylinder/throwout bearing/shifter forks/100 other things. I really can't afford to take this to a shop, and while I know it's a pain in the ass to work on this transmission, I have to try. When my options are work on it and maybe break it vs have it break on me, the choice is pretty clear.

So I was wondering if y'all had any tests I could do to help narrow down exactly what part has failed on it. This forum was a big help on my first truck, a 91 explorer, and I see less B'S on here than a lot of Ford forums, so hopefully y'all can help me figure this out.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Have you checked the clutch reservoir for fluid loss?

 

[RonD]

Yes, could be a clutch issue

Manual transmissions are always connected to the wheels, so will always be turning at rear wheel RPMs, and that is 0 RPMs when stopped

Clutch disconnects transmission from the engine RPMs
So if transmission is at 0 RPMs and engine is idling at 700RPMs then to put transmission into 1st gear the Clutch disc must slow down to 0 RPMs from 700 RPMs, thats with the flywheel and pressure plate BOTH still spinning at 700 RPM
If clutch slave is not fully releasing pressure plate then the clutch disc will rub on flywheel and/or pressure plate, and you are try to slow the 10" clutch disc down to 0 RPMs with high ratio 5" synchro on 1st gear.

Hard to shift in to 1st when stopped is pretty much always a clutch issue.

2nd can be similar just because of RPM differences, if you notice that when the RPMs of engine drop down enough then you can slide it into 2nd I would also say clutch issue.

Check if engine RPMs are the same when it slides into 2nd also raise RPMs when in Neutral(from 1st) and see if its harder to get into 2nd until RPMs drop down
This would be signs that clutch disc is not fully releasing

 

[tomw]

Is this the transmission with the rubber 'plugs' on the top? If so, the plugs can turn to chunks, and allow the fluid to escape. Shifting when low on lube will become harder and harder...
Check the fluid level using the plug on the side of the case. It should be up to the lip of the access port.

tom

 

[Pronto285]

How would I go about checking the clutch reservoir? Sorry, first manual. None of my 4 wheeled vehicles have had much in the way of transmission issues until this one.

Tomw, I've seen that mentioned a lot, along with the freeze plug fix, which I intend to do, but it isn't the problem right now. Fluid it topped off and a bright clear red.

One thing I noticed coming home after a moderate drive today (maybe 150 miles round trip) was that if I hold the clutch pedal down for a few seconds while at a stop, it will slide into place very easily. So I've been trying to time my take offs accordingly at lights, although I know that's bad for the clutch.

 

[tomw]

the clutch reservoir should be located on the firewall, alongside the brake master cylinder. Most are whitish plastic, semi-translucent so you can see the level at a glance.
The 'slow response' release feature of the clutch, as in keeps holding on but will eventually release(and allow relatively easy gear selection) is the opposite of a worn master. A worn master or slave will slowly release the clutch throwout bearing, rather than slowly applying the throwout bearing. In most cases, leaks, internally, allow the slave to retract as the fluid flows past the seals. Sometimes pumping the clutch pedal will gain easier shifting as you can move faster, or pump faster than the fluid can flow past the leak.
You can try pumping the clutch pedal to see if it will release the clutch more readily.
tom

 

[Pronto285]

Pumping doesn't seem to make much a difference, I was just out there checking the reservoir (empty). Pumping might help a bit (didn't drive it very long) but holding it in basically makes it shift smooth as silk.

 

[RonD]

After filling reservoir see if it shifts better into 1st when stopped

If it still takes too long for the clutch disc to slow down then there was air pulled into the system from empty reservoir and you will have to bleed the system
Many Many How-tos on bleeding Ranger clutch system, they can be a pain

The reason air is an issue is because it can be compressed inside the master, slave or line between them.
Brake fluid is used in the clutch system because it can not be compressed at these pressures, so when you press down on the clutch pedal the fluid in the master flows out and down the line and into the slave, expanding the slave an equal amount from the fluid flowing out of the master
If air is in the system then it will compress under this pressure so slave does not expand an equal amount, and clutch disc is not fully released.

 

[Pronto285]

Whew! Ok. Had a buddy come over yesterday, mainly just to put eyes on it, take her for a spin, etc. After driving it he said it needed to be bled at the very least, and possibly have the slave replaced if fluid levels kept dropping. He rigged up a neat little attachment for the bleeder nipple, and away we went. A good amount of air, and some BLACK fluid. I mean BLACK. We ran about a bottle of fluid through until it ran mostly clear, then put everything back together and went to fire her up.

When I went to start the truck I noticed the clutch felt light, but some lumping built up pressure. Then I went to shift gears and it was totally locked up. Another 6 hours (he left about midnight) later, and we finally figured out how to get everything out of the truck, bleed it properly, and reinstall it. It was a giant pain in the butt, and I haven't test driven it long enough to see how much it actually helped, but there's definitely no more air in the master, and it shifts again. Side note, screw that little snap ring on the master...

 

[RonD]

Good work

Yes, most people don't come away with happy thoughts the first time bleeding a Ranger clutch system, pain in the butt is the polite language

 

[mpire]

This is a similar problem I have had on my truck for a while. It all started when I got the transmission serviced and put in a new clutch etc.

I got a new clutch, new slave, TOB, and theoretically the whole trans was rebuilt with fresh seals etc. Who knows really.

I recently replaced the master and the new unit came pre-bled and full of fluid. Then I re-bled the whole mess.

Its better, but not great.

I replaced the rubber seal around the shift lever and the little bushings recently and I dumped about half a bottle of fluid down the top before I sealed it up and I swear that made a difference. The transmission is full as far as I can tell from the fill hole.

I am running royal purple synchromax and that seems to help a little too, or maybe its all in my head.

If anyone has other ideas let me know. It never wants to go into 1st or 2nd when its running, I can just put pressure on it and eventually it will go right in.

Once it goes into 1st or 2nd it can go in and out super smooth and easy, but if you put it in neutral, then clutch out and back in, its again a bear to get back into 1st.

Is there a 1st gear lockout or something?

Goes in with feather touch when its not running.

Also, I have had my buddy work the clutch while I looked at the workings through the hold on the bell housing and the clutch is definitely disengaging from the flywheel.

So I got no ideas on this, let me know if you got any clues because I really wish I could go back to that super easy transmission shifting from before.

 

[tomw]

If this difficulty shifting into 1st & 2nd started ONLY after the clutch was worked on, then it is more likely a clutch problem than something else.
It is possible the clutch is not releasing completely. That would be problematic when you wanted to shift into gear with the engine running as the gears would still be spinning, and power trying to pass through.
It is also possible that the fluid level is/was wrong, causing different synchro/blocking ring operations. It is also possible the blocking rings are worn out, or the meeting surfaces on the gears are worn.
But, if it happened only after the clutch replacement, you have hope that the clutch glitch can be corrected w/o transmission work.
Were the replacement parts inspected & compared to what was originally installed?
Have you checked with whoever did the job to see what they have to say? If you did the work, you may want to again check the TOB and master/slave for good function.
If the transmission was filled with the wrong lube, it can allow/make the parts too slippery for the friction of the blocking rings to 'spin up' the gears and allow engagement. It can also be too 'thick', causing the rings more work to synch the rotation.
Many times, it may be easier to shift into gear with the engine running as the sliding parts with internal spline may run into the external teeth of the selected gear end-on, and rotation will allow a slight slip and re-alignment so the lockup can occur. The sliding collar has internal splines that lock the rotating gear to the shaft, input(in high) or output, and the counter gear shaft, which is always turned by the input shaft.
tom

 

[Pronto285]

So, I'm back! Everything worked well for a while, first gear got a bit hanky again, which I assumed was a bad synchro, as it didn't effect any nother gear. However, the day before yesterday, I went to the store, and in the middle of the journey it just decided it didn't want to shift anymore. Like, at all. Felt the same as when I effed up the bleed. I killed the truck and started it in first, and it shifted into the other gears. It shifted poorly, but it shifted. Yesterday, I drove it five minutes to a job, same deal. On the way back, it would barely shift into any gear. If I started it in first, it was almost impossible to get it into second. If I started in second, I could just barely get it into third, and the same for fourth. So I limped it home, pissing off a fair number of folks, and resigned myself to having to drop the tranny, which I hear is a bear.

Now, I'm assuming it has to be something in the clutch system, as it's effecting all gears, not just one. I hear the slave cylinders are completely garbage, so I'm assuming that's the issue, but I'm working on a pretty shoestring budget, and I'm wondering if there's any way I can diagnose the problem a bit more accurately, either before or after I drop the transmission. I've never done transmission work, so I'm not sure exactly what to look for once I get it down.

Also, if anyone has any tips for the removal of the transmission, is appreciate it greatly. Thank you.

 

[DRanger024]

They aren't too bad to pull. Worst part is the top two bolts on the bell housing if memory serves me. Try to have a buddy handy to help when it comes time to pull the trans off the motor. They aren't super heavy but heavy enough to crack your head or a few ribs.

 

[tomw]

I would use a box/open end wrench on the top two bolts, getting them at least broken loose from above, then use a few 3/8" drive extensions to reach up from underneath, after lowering the transmission by removing the rear crossmember. They aren't bad with the crossmember removed.
I have a mixed up story, so ask if the original master/slave and TOB were replaced? If so, they might be under warranty. Either way, you want to be sure to use the correct set for your transmission. I understand there are a lot of different designs installed.
I would want to replace with the same design, or be assured what I used would work.
If the clutch disk and pressure plate are old, it would be my choice to replace them when the transmission is out. It would not hurt to take the cover off the transmission to check the blocking ring clearance. There should be 'some' clearance between the blocking ring and the cone/gear assembly. The blocking rings are generally brass, so should be readily visible. If there's no clearance, the blocking ring will not bear on the cone, and shifting may be difficult. With clearance, the ring will rub on the cone, and spin up the gear before the collar engages the teeth. If no clearance, get some new rings and check that they stand off a bit from the flat on the cone/gear.
tom