Swaps/FI/Upgrades- best value

[b3million]

he says 300 wheel horse power


a 302 is garbage for a 300 whp application cammed for truck duty. in 1995 it was the easy option...because it was that or a 350 or 454...then 1997 happened.

you need a stroker, a 351 or a gen 3/4 5.3 or 6.0 gm engine.

for sure the cheap ls days are gone due to age and miles

at this point a gen 2 coyote out of a 150 is best. or a n/a 3.5 or 3.7 V6.

I have a 3in body lift and 5 inch suspension lift and my truck tows pretty good. but it rides on leaf 60s.....so. I am cheating.

today. the cheapest by thousands for me would be a 5.3 swap. I can still get good running 5.3s for decent costs. I would run a 4l80 with the gm case .

just run the gm PCM with a canned tune and put a fork in it.


diesel....no way I would run a 4bt. i would do a gep 6.5 or om 6. again with a 4l80.

Few things. I'm completely sold on a manual. I bought the truck specifically because it was a stick. I don't want to use an auto.
I priced out diesel swaps and they are way beyond my budget. I'd just be better off buying a bigger truck.
I like the idea of a coyote, and I really did think about it, but that's even more money than the diesels.
I liked 5.3's and 6.0's, but they're actually more money than a 302, even if you pull them yourself. I've got family who fell for that trap, and everything you need after you get the motor is what really bites your ass. I priced out the 302 swap, and it doesn't make me cry looking at it, so that's the route I want to take. Besides, I'm in a ford family. My dad and grandad would kill me if they saw me LS swapping a "perfectly fine ford truck" LOL

 

[bobbywalter]

Few things. I'm completely sold on a manual. I bought the truck specifically because it was a stick. I don't want to use an auto.
I priced out diesel swaps and they are way beyond my budget. I'd just be better off buying a bigger truck.
I like the idea of a coyote, and I really did think about it, but that's even more money than the diesels.
I liked 5.3's and 6.0's, but they're actually more money than a 302, even if you pull them yourself. I've got family who fell for that trap, and everything you need after you get the motor is what really bites your ass. I priced out the 302 swap, and it doesn't make me cry looking at it, so that's the route I want to take. Besides, I'm in a ford family. My dad and grandad would kill me if they saw me LS swapping a "perfectly fine ford truck" LOL

the ls trap can be a thing. if You need bling.

un like the sbf....the goal 300 whp is NOT ONE OF THEM. You can do this easily with a 5.3...ridículos easy with a 6.0.

to say swapping in an AR-5 from a Colorado with adapter....truck Norris cam, and a 5.3 costing more than a 300 hp SBF is still highly unlikely.

not sure what your relative did but floor starting a ls is cake. running it as is is extremely cost effective.

but goal and choice vary. i specialize in cost effective.

you need an engine and trans regardless.

so clutch pp and tob are a wash.....

where I shop the 302 is 300 dollars less. you will not make up the power difference with 300 dollars.

most available 302 Will require valve springs just to spin to 6k....with 220 hp...crank hp.




ls engine 700 bux.

the fab bot AR-5 to LS kit is 350 bux.

the trans used is 600

engine mounts are 50....

you cut and mod the stock gm truck manifolds...that will outflow any shorty swap 302 you can get....if you put nice ends on it 70-100 bux....

adapt the driveshaft or just buy new 450 bux new.


fuel system ...sameish

coolant hoses sameish...

radiator 200 bux.

cooling fan up to You....still same.

its minutes to make the oem 5.3 harness work. they are everywhere

200 for unlocked ecm..


2800 ish for 250 wheel. 3500 for 320 wheel.




302....
you have to Buy heads for the 302...

and a cam.....

and Will be at the limit of the stock intake and maxing psi on injectors. and to tune it....well....its not what it used to be.

but doable.



the ls trap is the same as the Windsor trap.

just cheaper dollar per hp.

 

[franklin2]

My only issue with it is that all of the builds are carbureted. It's a good resource though, thank you.

I didn't see you mention fuel injection as a requirement. What system were you planning on running? For those power levels it can't be a Ford system. You could build one of those engines and just plop on a aftermarket throttle body system on the carbed intake.

 

[b3million]

I didn't see you mention fuel injection as a requirement. What system were you planning on running? For those power levels it can't be a Ford system. You could build one of those engines and just plop on a aftermarket throttle body system on the carbed intake.

honestly, I had assumed upgrading fueling and air would do what I needed. Shows how much I know. So, if I'm understanding you right, even injectors/pumps/ tuning on a 302 small block with the ford injection system wouldn't boost the power to where I want it?
I like fuel injection because (in my opinion) it's easier to tune than a carb. It also tends to be more fuel efficient. Someone in this thread mentioned a Holley Sniper, which I like the idea of. Do you have an aftermarket throttle body in mind? I'm afraid when you said "ford system" you lost me a little bit. When you say system, you mean fuel, right?

 

[b3million]

the ls trap can be a thing. if You need bling.

un like the sbf....the goal 300 whp is NOT ONE OF THEM. You can do this easily with a 5.3...ridículos easy with a 6.0.

to say swapping in an AR-5 from a Colorado with adapter....truck Norris cam, and a 5.3 costing more than a 300 hp SBF is still highly unlikely.

not sure what your relative did but floor starting a ls is cake. running it as is is extremely cost effective.

but goal and choice vary. i specialize in cost effective.

you need an engine and trans regardless.

so clutch pp and tob are a wash.....

where I shop the 302 is 300 dollars less. you will not make up the power difference with 300 dollars.

most available 302 Will require valve springs just to spin to 6k....with 220 hp...crank hp.

ls engine 700 bux.

the fab bot AR-5 to LS kit is 350 bux.

the trans used is 600

engine mounts are 50....

you cut and mod the stock gm truck manifolds...that will outflow any shorty swap 302 you can get....if you put nice ends on it 70-100 bux....

adapt the driveshaft or just buy new 450 bux new.


fuel system ...sameish

coolant hoses sameish...

radiator 200 bux.

cooling fan up to You....still same.

its minutes to make the oem 5.3 harness work. they are everywhere

200 for unlocked ecm..

2800 ish for 250 wheel. 3500 for 320 wheel.


302....
you have to Buy heads for the 302...

and a cam.....

and Will be at the limit of the stock intake and maxing psi on injectors. and to tune it....well....its not what it used to be.

but doable.

the ls trap is the same as the Windsor trap.

just cheaper dollar per hp.

My cousin bought a junkyard 6.0 and 4l80 for $2k. He bought a 2500 shell with no motor or drivetrain and all the wiring for 1500. By the time the truck was running he had spent 10 grand. I couldn't tell you more than that, because he's too embarrassed about it to say anything more. you aren't wrong about the dollar per hp. Also had no idea the AR5 was even a thing. my hiccups with it are at this point the transfer case, front and rear drive shafts, the wiring to get it to hook up to the ford body harness, and the driveline stuff. LS ECUs are definitely easier to come by and very easy to get people to crack.
Have you hooked an LS harness up to the ford body harness and got it to work with the gauges? What about the climate control? if you haven't done it, do you know someone who has and or has written a guide? maintaining interior functionality is something i want.

To clarify, I fully intend to get heavier injectors, a better intake, and a cam for the 302. but you're not wrong about the tuning.

 

[bobbywalter]

My cousin bought a junkyard 6.0 and 4l80 for $2k. He bought a 2500 shell with no motor or drivetrain and all the wiring for 1500. By the time the truck was running he had spent 10 grand. I couldn't tell you more than that, because he's too embarrassed about it to say anything more. you aren't wrong about the dollar per hp. Also had no idea the AR5 was even a thing. my hiccups with it are at this point the transfer case, front and rear drive shafts, the wiring to get it to hook up to the ford body harness, and the driveline stuff. LS ECUs are definitely easier to come by and very easy to get people to crack.
Have you hooked an LS harness up to the ford body harness and got it to work with the gauges? What about the climate control? if you haven't done it, do you know someone who has and or has written a guide? maintaining interior functionality is something i want.

To clarify, I fully intend to get heavier injectors, a better intake, and a cam for the 302. but you're not wrong about the tuning.

i have done it. but different applications. only one had actual creature comforts. incorporated a suburban style rear HVAC box on wheel well with air ported to firewall.

the year of the rig is key. is it a ttb or later SLA model?

obd1 is simple. obd2 gets to where you pay attention....late obd2-eec5 gets to be a giant pia in regards to interfacing anything.

this i would simply retrofit an earlier HVAC/dash setup or custom gauge.

there is a sweet spot where the explorer setup is a bolt in for the most part.

ac is generally non issue.

cruise is different depending on actual parts.

there is little to integrate, you make the system stand alone whatever engine you choose and incorporate from there

 

[b3million]

i have done it. but different applications. only one had actual creature comforts. incorporated a suburban style rear HVAC box on wheel well with air ported to firewall.

the year of the rig is key. is it a ttb or later SLA model?

obd1 is simple. obd2 gets to where you pay attention....late obd2-eec5 gets to be a giant pia in regards to interfacing anything.

this i would simply retrofit an earlier HVAC/dash setup or custom gauge.

there is a sweet spot where the explorer setup is a bolt in for the most part.

ac is generally non issue.

cruise is different depending on actual parts.

there is little to integrate, you make the system stand alone whatever engine you choose and incorporate from there

Think mine's SLA. Torsion bars in the front and leaf springs in the back. My truck is OBD2, but it's not super late. It's prissy enough that it won't stay running if the MAF doesn't detect anything ,though. I don't know anything about my cruise since i barely use it to begin with, but my truck is (thankfully) drive-by-cable. no electric throttle for me.
I've looked into the LS more and I've found the accessory brackets I would need to use, but everyone who's made an LS swapped ranger pretty just uses it for a lowered street truck. none of them have 4x4 or even address the issues with swapping a motor in and clearing the 4wd components

 

[b3million]

I went looking for 6.0s on car part. Most of them are 4x the price of a 302, cheapest I saw was one that was $500 and had an engine fire. I don't think I'm gonna be able to get an LS platform for cheap at this point. 5.3s are a lot less money but everything listed was miles from me.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I went looking for 6.0s on car part. Most of them are 4x the price of a 302, cheapest I saw was one that was $500 and had an engine fire. I don't think I'm gonna be able to get an LS platform for cheap at this point. 5.3s are a lot less money but everything listed was miles from me.

I wish I was where you are, a $500 302 is a core here.

Bunch of "ran when pulled X years ago" greaseballs for a 1000-1500.

 

[b3million]

I wish I was where you are, a $500 302 is a core here.

Bunch of "ran when pulled X years ago" greaseballs for a 1000-1500.

hahaha, the 6.0's were all $2000+. Saw a couple for 6. These are coming out of vans, mind you, not say a corvette or something like that.

That does suck though. There are a few yards here in bama with the full 302 from an explorer on sale for that much. I haven't checked pull it yourself yards yet, I'm sure they'll be cheaper but they're a pain in the ass to search, and half the time the part you're looking at was already taken by someone else.

 

[bobbywalter]

6.0 is a monster.

can't compare a 302 to it. 302 and 4.8 maybe.. you have to compare 351 or coyote pricing to 6.0......the 5.3 is that space that is just right still...

5.3 run about 6-800 for a solid unit and the typical 302 around 400ish bux here. it varies everywhere.

but the 350-400 dollar 5.3 seems history.

though....more and more decent build 351 and 302s and 302 strokers with plenty of life left are starting to pop up around here. 3 grand with good heads....like afr or twisted wedges. so keep shopping. be patient. guys that LS swapped their fox platforms mostly.

if that in itself is not a statement .

 

[b3million]

yeah, I see a lot of good looking 5.3 swaps. Pricing out the drivetrain from motor back on an LS, AR-5s are about $800 here, their cases (electronic only) are about $120, front/rear driveshafts together are $200. Flywheel is $81 brand new on rockauto (ls1 flywheel), and the ls7 clutch is $311.I also need a modified slave cylinder, which is $100. That plus the $270 adapter and a $800 motor (or $2000 if you get a 6.0), plus a $1400 terminator with no transmission control to do the ECU, plus almost $1000 for adapter brackets for accessories (alternator, AC, maybe power steering), Plus drivetrain work and AC, mounts ($50), cooling, $120 for a water pump, and a few other things, it's about $5.5k for parts assuming I don't pull any of them myself and nothing goes wrong with the motor, and that doesn't guarantee a fully working truck. I didn't even account for fueling in there. I would love to do a 6.0, since the accessories and the rest of it are all the same, but that's pretty much only doable if i find somewhere to pull it myself.

Stock PCM and just dealing with it/ learning to modify the harness costs more time and potentially more issues but saves me $1400 in a holley system. There is documentation on it and I've reviewed it extensively in the past. Custom building brackets is another potential money saver but adds an uncertain failure point and a big time cost. I'm an engineering student, but I'm not familiar with the particular forces that go into building a bracket for a constantly vibrating engine part that constantly has belt tension on it. I also could just get the AR5-LS1 bellhousing from fab bot, which is about half the price of the adapter.

Based on my youtube trawling, nobody has done this particular swap before, past the transmission. none of the ones I see are both manual and 4wd, it's either one or the other, and the years for these things are all over the place. Documentation is pretty much nonexistent, mostly just guys asking if anyone has ever done it then vanishing off the internet forever. Youtube videos are my only source for this stuff.

 

[b3million]

There's exactly one pull-it-yourself yard here in my state that seems viable. They're pretty small, but they offer long blocks for $175 post core charge and a full engine with no accessories for $240. radiators and fans are $200 total, AC is 50, lines are 12, transmissions are 120, so are transfer cases. Drive shafts are 30. computers are 40. PS pumps are 35. Harnesses are an unknown. It's literally all the way across the state from me but it seems worth it for pricing like that. that's less than a grand for the engine and drive train, with most of the accessories. I don't care about a water pump, since I'd have to buy one anyway, or most of the accessories. The information they have online is super minimal, but the site is mostly up to date. If this isn't too good to be true, an ls swap might be possible...

 

[franklin2]

honestly, I had assumed upgrading fueling and air would do what I needed. Shows how much I know. So, if I'm understanding you right, even injectors/pumps/ tuning on a 302 small block with the ford injection system wouldn't boost the power to where I want it?
I like fuel injection because (in my opinion) it's easier to tune than a carb. It also tends to be more fuel efficient. Someone in this thread mentioned a Holley Sniper, which I like the idea of. Do you have an aftermarket throttle body in mind? I'm afraid when you said "ford system" you lost me a little bit. When you say system, you mean fuel, right?

During your research you should have noticed guys doing all kinds of different work arounds and things to try to tune the Ford system. It is just not friendly as far as tuning for non-stock add-ons.

There are a bunch of throttle body add-on fuel injection products.

You have the Sniper, the Killshot, the Fitech, Bandit, Fast, ACES, who knows what I missed.

 

[bobbywalter]

ok. on the LS side. it depends on what you want. in regards to off-roading if you may want a doubler or run a 205 for front digs then go with a fullsize transmission....and older 241...this is easy to use 6 hole standard.

if you run the fab bot or gen plate style to use the 4l60 bell with the aisin AR-5, you want to use the old school s10 233c with u joint yokes....

you just pull the shift controller off and it's easy to make linkage to convert it to manual shift.

but journey off road (the minivan guys) has a nice kit.

the colorado t case has the output on the dumb side of the truck, so you would have to use a 226 from a blazer or trailblazer....that don't have u joint yokes....don't do that.

150 bux buys a stand alone harness for the 5.3. they are all over eBay from 80 to 200 dollars....brand new chinesium.

regardless
the truck setup is easy to use. if you can't use that ..then the ford will be even harder.


more importantly...

these LS processers are more robust than the eec 4 and 5 setups as well.

the only reason to use a Holley for a 300 whp swap is if it is getting boost to be a 450 whp swap.


or you really like cake. get the Holley .....i have hp tuners and the Holley and will be getting moates again and another ms3 to use with what is on tap over the next season.

I do love the Holley Terminator X, but for sub 400 hp it is not worth it because the stock ecm works WAAAAY better for mpg.


just use the truck engine accessory drive, or the 150 dollar ict kit that puts the truck alternator on drivers bottom and truck pump drivers top....leave ac compressor in truck spot, hose kits and crimpers 300 bux. or two repair kits for 40 bux to hook your lines to the ls lines



on the ford front, all is not lost.

well....moates is back. but those old processers are time bombs now.

still....they are ok in cost but not better than the Holley.

even with the full 1/4 horse by the time you are dialed in it will be close to or possibly exceed the Holley....the ACES while not as good will be way cheaper. and more importantly...NEW.


so ...say....93 ish s10 t case, fab bot style to ls setup for AR-5...and a 5.3 with PCM and wiring.

where I live. 1900 dollars has it doing burnouts in whatever carcass I am working on....this includes brand new clutch pressure plate and tob..and extended lines and adapters.



the driveshafts in my trucks I made.....so it's not including driveshaft costs if you can't do that.

and that is pull up to the junkyard and they toss it in my truck prices.

u pull is under 1200.

and I can do that today.

ford....

I can do it today too....but it's not gonna be close in power.

finding an ecm and good harness...and setup for 300 whp wont be just a cam swap