Should I go 302 or 4.0L swap?

[baddad457]

theres just no need for a v-8 unless its a toy.

Oh but there is. When I started the swap back in 2001, the original 2.9 was starting to have isssues with the EFI system. Nobody around here knew how to fix it. Then the clutch went south (for the 2nd time @ 110,000 miles) and it developed an exhaust leak on the right manifold. The Manifold bolts twisted off in the head when I tried to remove them, that and the bolts holding the exhaust pipe to the manifold refused to unscrew. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. Out went the 2.9 and in went the 302/C-4 auto. 7 years and 5 engine combos later, it's been relegated to occasional work truck with an Explorer level 5.0, but carbed. Tame enough to put around town, fast enough to boil the 275/60's out back on demand. Gas mileage is in the 15-20 mpg range, same as the 2.9 was getting after 110K miles. You CAN have your cake and eat it too with a V8.

 

[rickcdewitt]

7 years and 5 engine combos later

not having much luck eh?how much does that cost compared to a 4.0l?



Gas mileage is same as the 2.9 was getting after 110K miles. You CAN have your cake and eat it too with a V8.

i call BS,i'm pretty sure you have a 2wd so you wouldn't really notice the 4low and or below 10mph fuel consumption of a small block compared to a 2.9 or 4.0.
i've had my share of smallblock powered cars as well as 4cyl.what i've found is you get the best bang for the buck running the least amount of motor you need.unless you run huge tires the power to traction thresh hold is rediculous too,i bet its real fun trying to drive your truck to tahoe in the snow.i like low powered trucks and the 4.0l is on the traction edge in a lot of sloppy situations anyway.

it is way too easy to get a 302 to drain your tank idling around.any way you slice it the small block is excess.add to that the extra cost of the 302 swap and yes i'de call it a toy,not utilitarian.

don't get me wrong a hotrod with ranger badges is fun but not for everyone.especially those who don't want to become a felon by ripping out all the smog and getting the cops harassing them to boot.

you can't say gee one is better than the other(as they both have their strong points),but i will say there are a lot more applications for the smaller SMOG LEGAL motor.

people get hung up on the motors themselves in these discussions rather than where they are best suited. its not about the #'s

 

[baddad457]

i call BS,i'm pretty sure you have a 2wd so you wouldn't really notice the 4low and or below 10mph fuel consumption of a small block compared to a 2.9 or 4.0.
i've had my share of smallblock powered cars as well as 4cyl.what i've found is you get the best bang for the buck running the least amount of motor you need.unless you run huge tires the power to traction thresh hold is rediculous too,i bet its real fun trying to drive your truck to tahoe in the snow.i like low powered trucks and the 4.0l is on the traction edge in a lot of sloppy situations anyway.

it is way too easy to get a 302 to drain your tank idling around.any way you slice it the small block is excess.add to that the extra cost of the 302 swap and yes i'de call it a toy,not utilitarian.

don't get me wrong a hotrod with ranger badges is fun but not for everyone.especially those who don't want to become a felon by ripping out all the smog and getting the cops harassing them to boot.

you can't say gee one is better than the other(as they both have their strong points),but i will say there are a lot more applications for the smaller SMOG LEGAL motor.

people get hung up on the motors themselves in these discussions rather than where they are best suited. its not about the #'s

Tahoe? I don't do Kalifornia. Try South Louisiana's "Gumbo" mud for traction capability. Lot thicker than snow and twice as slippery. There's an art to "walking" a truck in low ttaction situations. It's all in knowing what you're doing. An experienced driver can handle most situations regardless of engine. Nothing felonious about an engine swap, if you know how to go about it. Besides, how many federal smog cops have you ever seen? It's only illegal if you get cought and the chances of that ever happening is nil (unless you vote in the Democrats and Nobama, then all bets are off) And there's no excess cost in a V8 swap vs a 4.0, if you know how to shop. You can end up paying more for a complete 4.0 just as easily as a V8 Exploder motor. As far as fuel economy at idle, that's something that is a moot point, who idles around all day long anyway? (answer is virtually nobody)

 

[rickcdewitt]

Try South Louisiana's "Gumbo" mud for traction capability. Lot thicker than snow and twice as slippery.

i'm sure your 2wd truck sees it all the time,i have a bud who never puts his big block in low range because its instant wheel spin from EXCESS power



As far as fuel economy at idle, that's something that is a moot point, who idles around all day long anyway? (answer is virtually everybody)

another v8 buff tried that arguement,but its quite relevant.unless i hypermile a v8 it will get crap for mileage.why shouldn't i only want to spend a half tank over a weekend? instead of a full tank and then some?

better economy idling and putting around a job site or in the woods is a plus for a work truck.

people with v8's say-
-its almost as cheap and easy
-same mileage
-more power

but the fact is its all too easy for them to cost way more if you don't get a slamming deal and drink way more gas.aside from all the custom work most people can't do themselves.a 4.0l IS A BOLT IN SWAP,ALL THE WAY!.some small blocks even have LESS power than a 4.0l.

you act like i'm condemning the small block not clarifying when it does and doesn't make sense.i don't think eveything should have a 4.0 but i sure get that from a lot of defenders of the faith(smallblock).

far as i'm concerned the only time you NEED a v8 is for those gumbo mud runs on huge tires(um can you say TOY not utilitarian truck)

can you make them work?-yes

are they as practical as a 4.0?-NO!

can you acknowledge the point? is there ANY situation you wouldn't want a 302 in rbv?

 

[88mudder]

id go with the 5.0, its far more fun to drive..4.0's wont inpress you once u do the 5.0 swap.

 

[millermayhem]

I live in an area where my Bronco II does not sit around and idle. So fuel used while idling is a moot point. The 2.8 is a noisy engine and while it does not feel like it is going to explode, it can be fatiguing to drive on the freeway while the 2.8 drones down the road.

what engine would display the best road manners and reliability? ( assuming a carb was ran for both setups). I understand that the V8 would most likely get lesser MPG. I am not rock crawling or mud bogging. I want a reliable rig to take the family camping and some intermediate off roading.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

but the fact is its all too easy for them to cost way more if you don't get a slamming deal and drink way more gas.aside from all the custom work most people can't do themselves.a 4.0l IS A BOLT IN SWAP,ALL THE WAY!.some small blocks even have LESS power than a 4.0l.

That goes for anything, even a brake job can snowball to be a much larger project than anticipated.

Whichever way he goes he will need an engine, tranmission (sooner or later) and driveshafts for his different axles... cheaper depends on what he can get parts for which can vary wildly depending on both area and seller.

I live in an area where my Bronco II does not sit around and idle. So fuel used while idling is a moot point. The 2.8 is a noisy engine and while it does not feel like it is going to explode, it can be fatiguing to drive on the freeway while the 2.8 drones down the road.

what engine would display the best road manners and reliability? ( assuming a carb was ran for both setups). I understand that the V8 would most likely get lesser MPG. I am not rock crawling or mud bogging. I want a reliable rig to take the family camping and some intermediate off roading.

A carbed V-8 would probably be the way to go for you, unless you get a donar Ranger with the same configuration as yours you will need to add ALL the EFI stuff to do either a 4.0 or a EFI 5.0. There has been some talk about using a GM throttlebody on a Ford 5.0 which I find very intriguing as they have about the same requirements as a carburator but gives you most of the benefits of EFI.

If you haven't yet you might adjust the valves in your 2.8, they are mechanical and need readjusted from time to time. That should quiet it down a little and might give you some more power.

 

[Psychopete]

A 5.0L is really reliable, too. This is one of the main reasons why I decided to build one. A friend of mine dropped a stock EFI 5.0L HO w/ 130K in his station wagon w/ AOD. Runs great. No matter which way you go, there's going to be a heap of issues to sort through. I ran into small issues on a SBC -> SBC swap even - 262ci V8 to 327ci V8. Seems like a no-brainer... It was just a couple of brackets that I needed to fabricate, otherwise it was pretty simple.

I think it's going to come down to your skills in either wiring or fabricating. An EFI swap might not be such a great idea if you suck w/ wiring. Just hate to see someone get half way into something, just to junk it because they couldn't finish it.

But I do agree, a 4.0L sounds like it would be perfect for your purposes. But it's not going to be that easy from a wiring stand point.

As far as comparing the two power to power, that's comparing apples to oranges. The 5.0L has 2 more pistons. The wagon I referring to above has all kinds of low end torque. But it's more of a toy like stated above, as my truck will be as well.

Pete

 

[baddad457]

another v8 buff tried that arguement,but its quite relevant.unless i hypermile a v8 it will get crap for mileage.why shouldn't i only want to spend a half tank over a weekend? instead of a full tank and then some?

better economy idling and putting around a job site or in the woods is a plus for a work truck.

people with v8's say-
-its almost as cheap and easy
-same mileage
-more power

but the fact is its all too easy for them to cost way more if you don't get a slamming deal and drink way more gas.aside from all the custom work most people can't do themselves.a 4.0l IS A BOLT IN SWAP,ALL THE WAY!.some small blocks even have LESS power than a 4.0l.

you act like i'm condemning the small block not clarifying when it does and doesn't make sense.i don't think eveything should have a 4.0 but i sure get that from a lot of defenders of the faith(smallblock).

far as i'm concerned the only time you NEED a v8 is for those gumbo mud runs on huge tires(um can you say TOY not utilitarian truck)

can you make them work?-yes

are they as practical as a 4.0?-NO!

can you acknowledge the point? is there ANY situation you wouldn't want a 302 in rbv?

You bud who got wheel spin with a bigblock in low range and got wheel spin, simply needed to upshift to a higher gear. and take advantage of the higher torque. You keep trying to list the advantages of a 4.0 swap, but you yourself and others have yet to make your case. It sounds to me like it's just as complicated a swap as a V8. There's no torque advantage, no mileage advantage here, other than it supposedly being a bolt in swap, which in your desciption, isn't the case, if you have to completely remove everything and start back from scratch. It's every bit as easy to do an Explorer 5.0 swap in a 98-up truck. It all boils down to personal choice, as one swap is as complcated as the other.

 

[Totalled]

I don't think a 4.0 would enjoy torquing along like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BEcyHQ1Ris

 

[Dishtowel]

I don't think a 4.0 would enjoy torquing along like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BEcyHQ1Ris

Two words: KICK ASS.

I say... whatever swap you choose, GET A RUNNING DONOR. I spent my summer chasing problems instead of wheeling as much as I wanted to.

 

[rickcdewitt]

another v8 buff tried that arguement,but its quite relevant.unless i hypermile a v8 it will get crap for mileage.why shouldn't i only want to spend a half tank over a weekend? instead of a full tank and then some?

better economy idling and putting around a job site or in the woods is a plus for a work truck.

.a 4.0l IS A BOLT IN SWAP,ALL THE WAY!.

far as i'm concerned the only time you NEED a v8 is for those gumbo mud runs on huge tires(um can you say TOY not utilitarian truck)

is there ANY situation you wouldn't want a 302 in rbv?

Tahoe? I don't do Kalifornia.

i love bigots

It sounds to me like it's just as complicated a swap as a V8. other than it supposedly being a bolt in swap, which in your desciption, isn't the case,

i don't see how its not.i unbolted the few things i needed and BOLTED them in,i even reused a lot of stuff that was under the hood,that doesn't compare to cutting up ac boxes,making or buying motor mounts,expensive radiator,thats all before you even hook it up to a transfer case and have custom driveshafts made and buy that more expensive motor and a carb and intake for it(carb for the dummies who want simple and NOT LEGAL) and then you get something which would suck gas like crazy every time you go wheeling-oh gee wait you said NO ONE idles their trucks or drives in low range

if you have to completely remove everything and start back from scratch

um thats not true AT ALL,.

It all boils down to personal choice, as one swap is as complcated as the other.

wow still got your head up somewhere eh?should i list everything? i swapped a motor and wiring that i had to move 8 wires on-easy.it bolted to the factory motor mounts, tranny,tcase driveshafts,radiator,02 sensor.every single aspect was factory bolt on, and straight forward.there are no 302 swaps that will and there are no v-8 explorers for the cost of a 90-94 in the wrecking yard.

sounds like someone was spooked by a couple wires and threw a carbed pile(several actually,until one ran) in his 2wd,and now crows that everyone should have a truck that can't be smogged.i f'd up a few cars in highschool that way but now i like clean work.

as i said before there are app's where i'de want a small block and it would really be easier to swap,like maybe a factory carbed rbv,or where i actually need the extra power. i'm not demonizing it or saying theres no reason to swap in a 4.0 like you are.it certainly does boil down to choice but NOT because the engines or the swaps are equal.as far as i'm concerned you haven't addressed any of my points and have explained quite well that you have no idea how easy a 4.0 swap is in a 89-94 compared to a v8 swap.

have a nice day, rick

 

[baddad457]

i love bigots

wow still got your head up somewhere eh?should i list everything? i swapped a motor and wiring that i had to move 8 wires on-easy.it bolted to the factory motor mounts, tranny,tcase driveshafts,radiator,02 sensor.every single aspect was factory bolt on, and straight forward.there are no 302 swaps that will and there are no v-8 explorers for the cost of a 90-94 in the wrecking yard.

sounds like someone was spooked by a couple wires and threw a carbed pile(several actually,until one ran) in his 2wd,and now crows that everyone should have a truck that can't be smogged.i f'd up a few cars in highschool that way but now i like clean work.

as i said before there are app's where i'de want a small block and it would really be easier to swap,like maybe a factory carbed rbv,or where i actually need the extra power. i'm not demonizing it or saying theres no reason to swap in a 4.0 like you are.it certainly does boil down to choice but NOT because the engines or the swaps are equal.as far as i'm concerned you haven't addressed any of my points and have explained quite well that you have no idea how easy a 4.0 swap is in a 89-94 compared to a v8 swap.

have a nice day, rick

The only biggoted one here is you. You can always tell when someone thinks they're loosing an arguement, they start the name calling, bird flipping and other derogatory statements. Grow up Junior.

 

[rickcdewitt]

I don't do Kalifornia.

i do take that as an insult

The only biggoted one here is you. You can always tell when someone thinks they're loosing an arguement, they start the name calling, bird flipping and other derogatory statements. Grow up Junior.

nice try,but you still have yet to address any of the facts i've brought up(besides the bs flag lol),i think i've spelled it out quite well and am now starting to have fun with you.maybe you need to take your own advise,grow up and start coming up with facts.

you must be republican party,the misdirection tactics are very similar

 

[baddad457]

Yea, I had you pegged as a NoBama supporter when you started in with the name calling to bolster your arguements. You've got to stop drinkin that koolaid they're serving. He'll drag down the rest of the country just like Kalifornia.