NP205 regearing?

[RangerSVT]

Anything I should look out for or be aware of or a certain place I should cut the case??
SVT

 

[jamie4ltr]

Was under the supercab last night looking at it and in order to do the dual t-case the gas tank would have to be relocated or removed all together. It's a 125km trip each way to where I like to go camping and 4x4. If I used a fuel cell I'd have to bring 3 or 4 jugs of fuel with me! Maybe saving my pennies for an Atlas 3.8:1 or 4.3:1 is the way to go? By the time I piss around building a doubler and spend small amounts of $ a whole bunch of times on the project it'll probably cost almost the same anyway. Anyone know if the Ranger/Exploder Atlas case is the same size as a BW1354? (Do dshafts remain the same length?)

 

[gwaii]

Anything I should look out for or be aware of or a certain place I should cut the case??
SVT

it's essentially the same as doing it to a 1350....ditch the back half of the case,cut off the chain housing for the front drive.using the 20 may be a bit more of a challenge as the input gear for it is on the tailshaft of the trans(with the 3 speed,anyway)but if this is used as the output of the doubler,it should not be a problem.

Was under the supercab last night looking at it and in order to do the dual t-case the gas tank would have to be relocated or removed all together. It's a 125km trip each way to where I like to go camping and 4x4. If I used a fuel cell I'd have to bring 3 or 4 jugs of fuel with me! Maybe saving my pennies for an Atlas 3.8:1 or 4.3:1 is the way to go? By the time I piss around building a doubler and spend small amounts of $ a whole bunch of times on the project it'll probably cost almost the same anyway. Anyone know if the Ranger/Exploder Atlas case is the same size as a BW1354? (Do dshafts remain the same length?)

relocating the gas tank is always the big issue with these types of modifications on the ranger.on mine i put it in the box,but this also reduces cargo room.
the doubler is best for someone who has access to and abillity to use machine tools and welding equipment,and is able to build the whole thing without spending any money and get better gearing than available spending thousands of dollars on aftermarket parts.
if you need to pay someone for the work,you'd probably be better off buying out of a catalog.
i don't know about driveshaft fit with the atlas,but i wouldn't be surprised if you needed a longer rear shaft as the tailshaft on the atlas is fairly short.
you should be getting a one-piece anyway.

 

[BONES]

With the flat flange on the rear output of the 1354 and a flat flange on the input of the divorced np205, you would just need bolts to hold the 2 flanges together, provided you made them have the same bolt pattern, no intermediate shaft, no ujoints, no extras. Just cut off the front output portion of the 1354 and weld in a filler plate to seal it back up. Drive shafts will now need to be longer up front and shorter out back, and some sort of shift linkage will need to be made to shift the second tcase. Not to mention you can twin stick the 205 and modify it for front digs, hell yeah!!

Gwaii, what would you do to mate a married np205 to the back of a doublered 1354? The adapter is easy, but the spud/intermediate shaft is the kicker! All ford drop 205's are 31 spline input, and the 1354 output is ?? Wouldn't mind hearing your take on this.

My set-up is changing here shortly, wanted it to be v8/c4/1354/1354, but since no one makes the shaft or adapter for the 1350/1354 doublers anymore, I'm starting to think outside the box for possibilities. I would rather not go with a c6/205 as that will add length and no reduction and a worse low range gear too boot. np203/205 doublers are cool, but attach that to a c6 and your length is way out there for my wheelbase. I'm definitely going auto with the v8. BII's are short wheelbase to begin with so adding 4 feet of drivetrain underneath wont happen with mine. I have added 4" front wheelbase and will be adding 4" rear wheelbase over the winter.

jamie4ltr, couldn't you put a BII tank in the back of your rig where the spare tire under the box rides?? They hold a lot of fuel, and are likely as big as your stock tank along the frame. They're not overly expensive new and will use your existing sending unit, tho you may need to lengthen the wiring harness and fuel lines, but that's not overly difficult. You could always hit the JY and grab a tank and skid plate from a 86-newer BII at the same time. Just an idea.

 

[gwaii]

Gwaii, what would you do to mate a married np205 to the back of a doublered 1354? The adapter is easy, but the spud/intermediate shaft is the kicker! All ford drop 205's are 31 spline input, and the 1354 output is ?? Wouldn't mind hearing your take on this.

this isn't too difficult.when you cut the output on the 1354 shaft,the remaining shaft can be bored out to be an interference fit(2-3 thou)with whatever transmission tailshaft is appropriate to your t-case,so for the 205 it will be any fullsize 4x4 tailshaft.
measure your lengths carefully here,as it's near impossible to go back.press the tailshaft into the bore on the 1354 shaft,this should take 10-15 tons.at this point it will be tight enough to drive as is,but go the next step-welding.
i tig weld the joint between the two with crom-moly filler,and it's done.
this way you can combine avy components you see fit to,without incurring huge costs.the adapter shafts on my ranger are done this way,and stand up to repeated 4000rpm neutral drops on pavement with the nitrous running into the 460 pushing 44'' tires.

 

[BONES]

the adapter shafts on my ranger are done this way,and stand up to repeated 4000rpm neutral drops on pavement with the nitrous running into the 460 pushing 44'' tires.

See this is my worry, I have read about a ton of shaft failures when done this way, I searched doublers on many forums and always read about the failures, very few are successful.

I built an adapter to mate my (at the time) Toy tcase to the back of a th350 after I did the V8 swap in my old Yota and the stock Toy 5sp blew apart. The adapter is easy, the shaft I had bored and pressed and welded by a reputable machine shop locally. It broke while out on the trail waaay the hell out in the bush. So the next time I had another machine shop do the same work, only this time I had a buddy with a lathe turn the welded shaft down a touch and then press on another piece of tube over the welded shaft and then plug weld it in a few places. This set-up is still together and running strong today, sold it to a buddy and he abuses it weekly.

I have doubts that this method of intermediate shaft building has the strength to handle the torque of double low range tho.

After reading all the failures out there with this, I guess I have become somewhat apprehensive about it now.

 

[gwaii]

See this is my worry, I have read about a ton of shaft failures when done this way, I searched doublers on many forums and always read about the failures, very few are successful.

I built an adapter to mate my (at the time) Toy tcase to the back of a th350 after I did the V8 swap in my old Yota and the stock Toy 5sp blew apart. The adapter is easy, the shaft I had bored and pressed and welded by a reputable machine shop locally. It broke while out on the trail waaay the hell out in the bush. So the next time I had another machine shop do the same work, only this time I had a buddy with a lathe turn the welded shaft down a touch and then press on another piece of tube over the welded shaft and then plug weld it in a few places. This set-up is still together and running strong today, sold it to a buddy and he abuses it weekly.

I have doubts that this method of intermediate shaft building has the strength to handle the torque of double low range tho.

After reading all the failures out there with this, I guess I have become somewhat apprehensive about it now.

this is understandable...but i'm wondering if the fits were tight enough.i've found that if theres only enough interference on the fit to require 1or2 tons to press them together,it will fail.if it's tight enough to require 10-15 tons,you should be good.
the weld is important,but the primary hold is by the interference fit.that shaft on the input of the eb 3speed pictured above was the first one i did this way.it was never treated nice,and found it's way into 3 different trucks.
it's still together 11 years later,although i did break a couple of the 5 speeds at the front of it.

 

[BONES]

Fair enough, I was never told what pressure it took to force them together, the larger the interference the tighter the fight.....by logic, lol.

So 2-3 thou interferance fit, requiring 10-15 tons pressure to fit components together.

Are you doing a full tig weld all the way around w/crom-moly filler rod? 1 pass?

 

[gwaii]

Are you doing a full tig weld all the way around w/crom-moly filler rod? 1 pass?

usually i do a root pass first.i machine a bevel on the female part,when they are pressed together i have a small void around the shaft to fill with weld,rather than just a square joint.i first do a pass with no filler just to fuse the pieces,then one pass with chrome-moly rod to fill to a nice convex weld,but still keeping it as small as practical.i use a 2% thoriated tungsten with argon shielding gas.

hope this helps.theres no guarantee with this sort of stuff,and i've had plenty of failures leading to this technique,but this one seems to be working pretty well.

 

[RangerSVT]

Gwai, my 20 uses a spud shaft, but its not part of the output shaft of the bronco trans...I have a J shift 20, and I also have a 77 bronco with the 302, c4, and J shift 20...I've been looking for a T shift 20 as this is the case I want to run in my ranger....as far as the gas tank being in the way of a doubler, I haven't measured yet, but with me having a 3" body lift, I think I will be able to lift the tank 3 inches and it should be able to clear the cases...If not, I planned to build me a tank that took up the extra 3 inches from the body lift and just cut it short where the doubler ends...
SVT

 

[gwaii]

sounds like a good plan on the tank.
the only 20 i'm really familliar with is the one pictured above,so without seeing the parts you've got i can't really say what you'd have to do.but it comes down to the same thing-make the parts so they'll fit really tight together,and make it work.
that must be a real pain not having low on a truck like that(i'm assuming it's the one in your avatar)

i've had another thought on shaft machining for anyone adventureous,though i haven't tried it myself.
if the parts are machined with a morse taper or simillar locking taper,then pressed together and welded,it would probably be even stronger.this is how tools are held into my lathe,mill,and drill press with nothing more than friction to keep them there.
should lock a spud shaft together pretty good.

 

[jamie4ltr]

The thought of using a B2 gas tank did cross my mind. The thought of it smacking the gas tank of a rock ledge as I go down it also crossed my mind!!! I'm going to take some measurements and see if the (smaller) tank from my regular cab will work with the 205 directly bolted to a 1350. Even mated like that will my skyjacker tranny xmember have to be replaced? Should the new xmember loop down around the dshaft or up over it? I need to see a picture of something similar! Is it EXTREMELY important that the 2 t-cases be PERFECTLY aligned when mated solid to each other?

 

[gwaii]

Is it EXTREMELY important that the 2 t-cases be PERFECTLY aligned when mated solid to each other?

yes.

 

[jamie4ltr]

Cool thanks for all the input on tcases. I think I know which direction to head in now!