New project, got a couple questions.

[82Flareside]

I joined TRS quite awhile ago, but have only lurked until now. A few months back I bought a 1981 AMC Eagle SX4, which has the POS chevy 2.5 in it. The car currently has a SR4 four speed manual. I plan on using the car as my new DD, but the 2.5 is completely worn out and has a ridiculous amount of blow by. '82 and later the eagles were available with a 4x4 version of the T5. Me being a fairly hardcore Ford guy, I recently picked up a 2.3 core from an ex coworker for dirt cheap. My idea is to find a 4x4 T5, use a ford bellhousing and drop in my 2.3L. My goal for this build is primarily fuel economy because my commute to work is about 50 miles one way. I would like to see at least 150hp though as there are quite a few hills along the way (35mph gets pretty old). The motor is from a 1983 2wd ranger and has the round intake ports (and a 1bbl carb). Would there be a noticeable advantage to runing either a D port or oval port head? I would like some recommendations on putting it together as I currently have minimal experience with this motor. I am not opposed to going turbo, but would like to explore my options and try to keep to a fairly tight budget.

 

[Kenneth S]

If its a 2.3 going to the d-port will help, they also put a 2.0 engine in the early 2wd rangers (externally they are the same, but has smaller cylinder bores, and can't be bored out got 2.3 pistons). You can put a d-port head on a 2.0 but you will loose a little compression, but may gain some power back by the better flowing d-port head. Second thing would be to switch to a Holley 350 cfm 2bbl carb, Third there is no T5 that was used in a 4x4 (that I know about) unless you use a diviorced transfer case, the M5OD-R1 5speed with a transfer case from a 4x4 Ranger, or Bronco II.

 

[82Flareside]

If its a 2.3 going to the d-port will help, they also put a 2.0 engine in the early 2wd rangers (externally they are the same, but has smaller cylinder bores, and can't be bored out got 2.3 pistons). You can put a d-port head on a 2.0 but you will loose a little compression, but may gain some power back by the better flowing d-port head. Second thing would be to switch to a Holley 350 cfm 2bbl carb, Third there is no T5 that was used in a 4x4 (that I know about) unless you use a diviorced transfer case, the M5OD-R1 5speed with a transfer case from a 4x4 Ranger, or Bronco II.

How can you tell if its a 2.0 or 2.3? Casting numbers? I will look into getting a D port head and holley 350. I know that AMC put 4x4 T5s in both eagles and CJs. The 4x4 T5 is my only drop in 5 speed option as the wheel base on my SX will prohibit a divorced Tcase.
Here is a pic of the AMC T5.

 

[Mikel89us]

The only way to tell if its a 2.0 that I know of is measuring the cyl. But I'm sure they can be identified by a casting number.

 

[Mikel89us]

And he is right, the t5 was available in 4x4 in jeeps, and the eagle

 

[Kenneth S]

I don't know of any way to tell externally a 2.0 from a 2.3

A T5 with a transfer case, that's the first one I've ever seen. The input shaft on the T5 maybe interesting, if the Eagle T5 has the same overdrive gear ratio as the T5 that was put behind 2.3's in Mustangs you should be able to swap the input shaft, and use a the 2.3 - T5 bell housing.

 

[82Flareside]

The input shaft on the T5 maybe interesting, if the Eagle T5 has the same overdrive gear ratio as the T5 that was put behind 2.3's in Mustangs you should be able to swap the input shaft, and use a the 2.3 - T5 bell housing.

That's what I am hoping for.

I started tearing the motor down this afternoon, and I'm hoping that the block is savable... It looks like part of the piston skirt on #1 broke off and the piston is cocked sideways in the cylinder. My 12pt sockets are at work, so I couldn't pull the head, but I did pull the oil pan and was able to pull the crank out. All of the rod bearings show fairly heavy wear and the crank bearings show some wear as well.
I bought this motor from a friend who used to have a mini stock pinto and this was a spare core he had picked up from the wrecking yard. I won't be too hurt if this motor can't be saved, I only paid $75 for it and a 5spd tranny and he threw in a kirkley high back race seat and a 5gal aluminum fuel cell.

 

[Mikel89us]

You can't just change the input shaft out with the 2.3. The 2.3 gearset is unique to the 2.3. You may be able to have machine work done on the amc shaft to make it compatible with the 2.3 crank and clutch.

 

[Kenneth S]

All though every transmission build will say not to put a T5 from a 2.3 into a car with a V8, I did do that just for a quick, temporary fix for a daily driver, and it worked fine. As long as the od gearing is the same it should just swap out. There aren't too many parts in T5's that won't swap out. I've done a few "Frankenstein" T5's, but not one used in a AMC, I feel it could be a very possible, easy swap.

If the T5 swap won't work the M50D 5 speed with a transfer case could probably be made to work (the front driveshaft is on the same side as the AMC).

The cylinder bore on a 2.0 is 3.520", on the 2.3 it's 3. 780"

 

[82Flareside]

Well, I thought it was about time for an update. The 'good' core I bought wasn't so good. This is what I found on tear down.


Beyond the obvious, the #1 cyl has a 3" crack in it and the block has already been bored .040" over. One big paperweight The past few months I've been keeping my eyes open for another motor and I'm going to look at one this weekend. I still haven't been able to locate a T5, but will continue looking.

 

[82Flareside]

This is the car, but the pic is a little old. I blew up the 2.5 in Nov, so the sx has been just sitting in the back corner of the garage.

 

[Mark_88]

That's a good looking car (shape wise)...

Is the 2.5 from the AMC anything like the 2.5 turbo they put in the later model PT Cruiser? If so...I'd look for one of those to rebuild...as an also ran project...the other one would be consider a turbo 2.3/2.5 Ford Lima engine (the one you have already is a Lima)...

Big problem with any of these builds is the cost...not to mention the wiring issues if you go FI...so staying with the 2.3 carb or AMC or Pontiac 2.5 carbed version would be easier.

There are a number of ways you can go with this...only a few would really make you happy in my opinion...a trade-off of building a powerful carbed 2.3 is fuel economy...partly why I thought FI turbo might be a bit better...you would get the power on demand of the turbo plus better fuel economy than a carb.

 

[tomw]

The "Iron Duke" was a pretty good runner as I remember. I would NOT call it a pos. You can find them used in some boat I/O power plants.
Switching to a Lima will not gain a lot in torque or hp. The Duke can be made to last a long time, and would have decent economy.
I would try to find a good one, pull the head and check the cylinder walls, pull the pan and check the rods and mains before putting a lot of money and effort into a custom Lima in an AMC. It is just not that cost or time effective, especially for a commute vehicle that you want to 1)be reliable, 2)have decent fuel economy and 3)not be a constant source of 'nail that back in place, I should have done it this-a-way rather than the way I did it.' problems. Get another Duke or fix the one you have and you'll come out way ahead.
FWIW, the 4 was derived from the excellent Chevy (ooooh bad word) straight 6. Cut out the middle two cylinders and nail it together to get a duke. Actually it is a bit larger than the 2.3, being 153cid, as I remember.
I do not remember any problem areas. Just a good engine, finally used to replace the 2300 beer-can Vega POS in many small GM cars & trucks.
You should be able to find a good one for minimal cost, and be on the road over a weekend. Of course, you are free to follow your hearts desire.
tom

 

[scotts90ranger]

There's also a 3.0L version of the duke used in forklifts and boats...

 

[82Flareside]

I guess technically it's not a Chevy 2.5.... Its the Pontiac 151 that was used in s10s. I've worked on alot of them and frankly don't like them. The 3.0L mercruiser motor is almost a drop in, and would be my first option if I could find one. The problem is that, with it being a boat motor, all of them around here seem to have fallen victim to not winterizing and therefore cracking the blocks. I was talking to a local engine shop a while back and he was saying he hasn't even seen one in the last 3-4yrs. The only other issue with that motor is that it is a non crossflow head and I would have to run fairly small exhaust to sneak by the front drive shaft.
The problem with finding another 151, is that AMC used a '78 block casting, so that it uses the same bell pattern as the small block Chevy. In '79 gm went to the v6 pattern on the 151. That makes finding the right 151 about impossible...