Difference between component speakers and just speakers

[pfar54]

as loud ranger said, those specs tell you how efficiant the speaker is. i like polk because you get a great speaker for the price of the other cheaper ones.

me personally, i like polk, jl audio, and pioneer. but thats just me.

the best question i can ask is, what do you want your stereo to do? please explain in detail and tell me what things you would like and your budget and i will build you a system.

Thanks loud ranger....

Well my truck I want it to sound good. But if it isn't the best I won't mind. Don't get me wrong I still want it to sound good, but it's just my secondary vehicle.

I have always just heard infinity is one of the best speakers by far. I've heard polk was good... just not as good and I always though JL was just really good for subs and amps.

Well anyways I'm taking my Alpine 9885 head unit out of my mustang for the winter and am using my JL 500 watt rms amp out of it as well.

I have some possiblilites for the subs. I have a box that holds two 12 inch subs. That is also in my mustang. The thing is though that only one of the subs work because of the subs blew somehow. The subs are kicker comp VR12's. So I'm going to either put the whole 2 12 box in my truck for now. Or the other two possibilities I'm going to do is make a single box myself and put my one kicker sub in the sub and call it a day with the subs or make a little bit bigger single 12 box and put atleast a jl w6 in it and call it a day.

By the way I listen to basically every kind of music there is. Rock, country, rap, grundge, alternative, metal, blues, jazz..... like I said everything.

I hope this helps blackwidow67

 

[RangerFabWorks]

Thanks loud ranger....

Well my truck I want it to sound good. But if it isn't the best I won't mind. Don't get me wrong I still want it to sound good, but it's just my secondary vehicle.

I have always just heard infinity is one of the best speakers by far. I've heard polk was good... just not as good and I always though JL was just really good for subs and amps.

Well anyways I'm taking my Alpine 9885 head unit out of my mustang for the winter and am using my JL 500 watt rms amp out of it as well.

I have some possiblilites for the subs. I have a box that holds two 12 inch subs. That is also in my mustang. The thing is though that only one of the subs work because of the subs blew somehow. The subs are kicker comp VR12's. So I'm going to either put the whole 2 12 box in my truck for now. Or the other two possibilities I'm going to do is make a single box myself and put my one kicker sub in the sub and call it a day with the subs or make a little bit bigger single 12 box and put atleast a jl w6 in it and call it a day.

By the way I listen to basically every kind of music there is. Rock, country, rap, grundge, alternative, metal, blues, jazz..... like I said everything.

I hope this helps blackwidow67

somewhat, whats your budget, and what are you looking to upgrade? spekaers? amps? subs? this info is important.

 

[Ranger SVO]

The shop I worked for sold Infinity speakers and the Kappa's had a very high failure rate. We actually quit carrying them. The Reference Series however were an excellent speaker. No Problems. Don't worry about the 2-ohm impedence, it won't cause any problems with your HU. We've install hundreds with no problem.

 

[RangerFabWorks]

The shop I worked for sold Infinity speakers and the Kappa's had a very high failure rate. We actually quit carrying them. The Reference Series however were an excellent speaker. No Problems. Don't worry about the 2-ohm impedence, it won't cause any problems with your HU. We've install hundreds with no problem.

wrong, pretty much all headunits are 4 ohms capable. if you put a 2 ohms speaker on just a headunit. you will put more of a strain on the internal amplifier of the unit. and it will short out after a while.

just get 4 ohms speakers. there more common anyway.

and me personally, i dont like infinity. i just installed references in my buddys 00 f-150, they suck, no mids, the highs sucked. just did not like them, and i installed a top of the line kenwwod cd player so they were getting good juice.

but to each his own, im in no way telling anyone what speakers to buy and dont buy. im just giving my opinions and making suggestions.

 

[Ranger SVO]

wrong, pretty much all headunits are 4 ohms capable. if you put a 2 ohms speaker on just a headunit. you will put more of a strain on the internal amplifier of the unit. and it will short out after a while.

I just wanna say that I speak from experience. We have sold a few hundred Infinity speakers over the years, on aftermarket radios as well as factory. And we have never run into any problem. We quit carrying Kappa because of speaker failures, not radio problems. But never one problem because of impedence.


A Copy of a letter from Harman Kardon
http://community.crutchfield.com/forums/p/3648/15414.aspx#15414

“Hey Guys,

Andy from Harman here...I'd like to clear this up, if I can without having to get too technical.

First, we didn't just decide to make our speakers 2-ohms without doing some serious testing and verifying that it works and that the "technology" is sound. We tested lots of factory and aftermarket head units and none of them failed. Many made more power. A few made less distortion (which was a surprise) AND more power, but none of them failed. In the two years that we've been selling 2-ohm speakers, we have NEVER had a radio fail because it's been hooked up to our speakers. In every case where an installer has suspected that our speakers have caused problems, we've helped them trace wires and measure resistance and have found some other problem...poor connections, short circuits and the like.

In our test, the head unit was connected to the speakers with a 1-foot pieces of wire. That's short compared to the lengths of wire that connect your head unit to your speakers in your car and the wire contributes some additional resistance. Furthermore, after you've played the speakers for a few minutes in the car, the voice coils get hot (that's one of the laws of Physics) and their resistance increases. When that happens, our speakers look to the radio like a 4-ohm speaker and a 4-ohm speakaer looks more like a 5.5-ohm speaker. We're simply giving you back the power that you lose when you actually install the speakers in the car.

Some of you might be surprised to discover that MANY factory speakers are, in fact, 2-ohm speakers and replacing them with 4-ohm speakers DEGRADES the performance of the head unit.”


“I am an expert, but I'm not an engineer. I've been doing this for over 20 years. I was a retail installer for 10 years. I've taught installers. I've won competitions with my own cars and built cars for customers who have won also. I now work for a manufacturer and my job as a Product Marketing Manager is to help engineers understand what customers want to buy and help marketers, salespeople and customers understand how things work and how best to use the gear. I try to do that in a way that's understandable, rather than to just spout a bunch of techno-babble or talk so far above everyone that no one can understand it. Fortunately, I have access to some of the best audio engineers in the world. So...when I have a question, I can always get the real answer that I can turn into something that most people get, easily.

First, I'd like for us to deal with things that are known rather than making statements like, "I'm sure", "I think", "I'll bet", or the like.

Next, we don't make aftermarket head units anymore, but I've personally installed hundreds of them over the last 20 years. We do make thousands of factory systems and those factory systems use similar amplifier technology that's included in today's aftermarket head units. The amplifiers in head units are not often "designed" by the manufacturer of the head unit. The resistors, capacitors and inductors that are used aren't designed by the head unit designer either. They are CHOSEN. The amplifier in the head unit is an IC--Integrated Circuit, and it has its own set of specifications that help the head unit designer choose the right one from the company that supplies it.

The specifications for the IC amplifiers chosen by head unit manufacurers include a minimum impedance specification and it's tested using resistors and a measure of the current that has to be delivered driving that resistor. Those specifications are stated using the customary 2-ohm, 4-ohm, and 8-ohm conventions. So the answer to the statement about the head unit manufacturer considering the speaker wire, the increase in impedance due to wire and heat is "NO". That resolution isn't available.

The answer to the other difficulty you pose is that we're talking about power here, even though I generalized when I stated that "Performance" is often degraded. What is degraded is the amount of power that the head unit provides when a factory-installed 2-ohm speaker is removed and a 4-ohm speaker is installed. Whether the new one plays louder is dependent on several factors: the sensitivity of the speaker compared to the one being replaced and the difference in its frequency response. 3dB higher sensitivity may cause the speaker to play at the same level as the one being replaced and more than 3dB may cause an even greater difference. Whether you like the frequency response better is subjective. The LAW (Ohm's law and the Power Law) inidcates that the radio WILL make less power.

What makes all of this more difficult than your scenario about buying a 60-watt speaker and a 60-watt amplifier is that amplifiers are tested using resistors and enjoyed when they're driving speakers. Speakers are not resistors. Their impedance is not resistance and the nominal impedance rating is just that--nominal--that means "In name only". Look it up in Websters. To better understand what happens, one has to better understand how speakers work and how power is transferred to them and used by them. What I'm saying as a speaker manufacturer is that we have an oppportunity to provide a speaker that makes better use of the power available from any amplifier and that's what we have done.We've adjusted the impedance of the speaker to optimize the total load (which is what the amplifier's rating indicates) so that you, the customer gets the best performance available from his or her system when it's installed in the car.

Why would we do that? Because we're customers too and as customers we expect the companies from whom we buy products to use their expertise to provide us a superior experience. We always stand behind what we build 100% and I invite any of you who experience any difficulty driving your Infinity speakers with your head unit to contact me via PM. I'll make sure we take care of you.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andy Wehmeyer
Product Marketing Manager
Harman Consumer Group

 

[RangerFabWorks]

I just wanna say that I speak from experience. We have sold a few hundred Infinity speakers over the years, on aftermarket radios as well as factory. And we have never run into any problem. We quit carrying Kappa because of speaker failures, not radio problems. But never one problem because of impedence.

i speak on experiance too. i used to work for a well known shop on long island, check em out. www.avenuesound.com

i have had problems hooking 2 ohms speakers to headunits. it wasnt as much of a problem with stock speaker wire. but when a customer wanted say 14 awg, then all heck would break loose, the headunits would flash, they would smell. and this happened numerous times.

im not sure how you guys do it. but if it works for you, then kudos to you. but i dont recommend it.

and btw, i hate infinity. every car i put em in sounded crappy. i have had customers buy the "top of the line" infinitys, only to want us to rip em out a week later for some polks, or boston acoustics or something.

 

[daniel3507]

so the 2 ohms you may need an amp but with 4 ohms you wont need one at all correct?

 

[RangerFabWorks]

so the 2 ohms you may need an amp but with 4 ohms you wont need one at all correct?

that is correct

 

[v8nick]

I had infinity reference in my old Mustang. No matter what I did they sounded like crap. i pitched them for some memphis audio stuff and I was happy. I have those Alpine type S 5x7's in my Contour and they rock. I have Total Mobile Audio in my Ranger and they rock too.

 

[daniel3507]

that is correct

2 channel amp or mono? im new to the audio thing

 

[RangerFabWorks]

2 channel. or a mono amp thats 4 ohms, that way your final ohm load will be 2 ohms. but just stick with a 2 channel if your new to the game. much easier to setup.

 

[pfar54]

Well I'm keeping my head unit, amp, and I might get a new sub. Just one 12 if I do because I want to do a single box set up for room.

I'll check out those speakers you suggested though for sure. You know of a place that sells an amp wiring kit for cheap? With a 4 gauge power wire.

 

[RangerFabWorks]

www.sonicelectronix.com ill price ya out stuff in a minute. what speaker sizes do ya need?

 

[RangerFabWorks]

amp install

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13218_Metra+The+InstallBay+AK4.html

speakers

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11800_Kenwood+KFC-C6882ie.html

sub

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8466_Kicker+07C124.html

those were the most reasonble prices i could find. if you had the money, the polk sepakers would be better. but if your on a budget, the kenwoods would be fine.

 

[pfar54]

amp install

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13218_Metra+The+InstallBay+AK4.html

speakers

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11800_Kenwood+KFC-C6882ie.html

sub

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8466_Kicker+07C124.html

those were the most reasonble prices i could find. if you had the money, the polk sepakers would be better. but if your on a budget, the kenwoods would be fine.

Thanks for looking the stuff up for me. The wiring kit looks good. I might be able to get it a little cheaper though. I'm probably going to get those polk's you recommended if my neighbor says they look good or can get me a better deal on them(he's a manager at a huge audio store around here).

That sub though I'm not too fond of. I have the better version of that one. The silver and red one and I don't like them at all. Plus with that my amps rms over powers that by 200 watts. I'm looking for a really good single sub like a jl w6 or kicker l5.