Cold weather hates my clutch?

[DeanMoriarty]

Well I feel better knowing this is a common problem. I'm going to keep an eye on the fluid level, but your explanation, Todd, seems to make sense as to why the cold would effect it leaking more.
Mine's just a 2 wheel drive, so no transfer case.
I guess I'll just plan on replacing everything from the clutch forward soon, I've had it for 5 years without replacing the clutch, so I'm sure it'll be due soon anyway. Screw it, I'll just knock it all out in one run. I'll look around the tech library for a how-to since I've never done anything this in depth before. If it seems too overwhelming than I'll bite the bullet and pay an arm and a leg to have it done. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[86ford]

TOD brought up a good point.

it COULD also be the master bleeding past the seals so make sure you inspect the master (bolted to the firewall, has a long rod attached to a plunger). if you have ANY brake fluid on the master, replace it. i always cross my fingers when i have clutch issues and pray its the master. the master takes around an hr depending on conditions, a clutch can take 2-10 hrs depending on the person doing it and the tools on hand (lift, tranny jack, etc).

86

 

[JohnPi]

OK, please indulge my ramblings . . .

Does the material that makes the clutch ever have a tendency to absorb moisture? I know that drum brake linings do, and I would think that the clutch material and the brake material would be similar in composition (at least in theory). So, if that is the case, is there any possibility that there was moisture in the clutch material that flash-froze during the cold snap that crossed the country recently? This could lead to a clutch that either a) was stuck to the flywheel and/or b) slipped against the flywheel? Scenario (b) wouldn't lead to a dead pedal, but scenario (a) might.

Then again to argue against myself, if the clutch was stuck to the flywheel it would be harder to press the pedal on a known-good system, wouldn't it?

 

[86ford]

OK, please indulge my ramblings . . .

Does the material that makes the clutch ever have a tendency to absorb moisture? I know that drum brake linings do, and I would think that the clutch material and the brake material would be similar in composition (at least in theory). So, if that is the case, is there any possibility that there was moisture in the clutch material that flash-froze during the cold snap that crossed the country recently? This could lead to a clutch that either a) was stuck to the flywheel and/or b) slipped against the flywheel? Scenario (b) wouldn't lead to a dead pedal, but scenario (a) might.

Then again to argue against myself, if the clutch was stuck to the flywheel it would be harder to press the pedal on a known-good system, wouldn't it?

option A still leads to the slave blowing a seal, or at least blowing by a seal.

option B is what happens when i take my b2 swimming but it still does not have as much trouble as the author has described.


keep in mind water freezes at 32 degrees so just because it is -10 does not make it much if any worse than 30 degrees in this case. keep in mind a clutch disc is contacting a flywheel spinning 1000times a minute or faster, it will get above freezing after 1 or 2 times releasing the clutch.


i have more trouble with my b2s tires freezing to the ground in this weather....

86

 

[srteach]

The rubber seals in the slave cylinder tend to get stiff when they get cold. That accounts for the hot/cold difference. Leakage is internal to the slave cylinder in this case, and may not show up too well.
In order to check whether the problem is in the master or the slave, disconnect the hydraulic line between them and press the pedal. Rock solid = bad slave, mushy = bad master. If you think it may be a bad master, bleed the master first, then check again. Getting even an extremely small amount of air in the clutch system will cause problems when it gets cold.
I had the same problem. For me, bad slave cylinder. Replaced that, and it runs great.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Let me make sure I'm looking at the right thing here...
The master is the larger, more oblong reservoir that sits away from the firewall a bit and the slave is small, cylindrical and sits right up against the firewall? It was the smaller one that was low on fluid, I assumed it was the slave.
I thought one was attached to the brakes and the other to the tranny / clutch... ? apparently I need to be schooled on exactly how the two work together. For every one thing I've learned about working on cars, I think there's 1000 things I don't know. I'll try your suggestions and see if I can spot a leak. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Okay.
Bare with me because I'm not real sure what exactly I'm looking at here.
I found a rubber inspection thing I could peel off to inspect the clutch and a sort of rod coming out from it. The rod appears to have oil, or maybe it's grease on it, whatever it is, it's black. The clutch itself was clean. I had pumped the clutch several times beforehand and didn't notice any brake fluid dripping inside there. Not sure if that's what I was supposed to be looking for. The tube going in from the left of that, what I think is the slave cylinder connection, has grease or oil on it where it connects. I looked around both cylinders on top and can't see any leaks. I'm not sure where else to look for a leak.
Where do the master and slave cylinder connect together? Would I get to it from above or below? I can't find it.

 

[Resurrection Ranger]

Just asking given a lesson I learned from a mistake I made in the past.. What are you running in your tranny for lube? I ask this because I too had a problem getting it into gear when it was cold but after driving it for a while it would ease up a bit. Turns out my trans lube was way too heavy. (Who knew manuals can use ATF..I didn't at the time. Used gear oil. WOOPS)

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what is in the tranny. I had the transmission replaced last year by a shop, so I assumed they refilled it with ATF. I guess I could call and ask.

I drove the thing to the store and back, it got a little better from pumping the clutch pedal, enough so I could get it in gear, but that's about it. I was in the store for maybe 20 minutes and when I came back out, it was not wanting to go into gear again. I was actually pumping the damned thing while rolling down the road to try to change gears. Something is definitely not right and I can't see a leak anywhere. The fluid didn't 'appear' to be any lower when I got home, but it may not have leaked enough to notice. I think someone mentioned air getting pulled into the system from the leak, maybe that's causing the clutch to stay all soft? Hopefully tomorrow or the next day I'll have time to look around for the leak again and try srteach's suggestion.

 

[snake]

To answer your questions a few posts up, the one master on the firewall with the round doohicky between it and the firewall is the brake master cylinder. The smaller one is the clutch master cylinder. The clutch slave is in the bellhousing.

If I remember correctly, the line that connects the master to the slave is sort of on the passenger side (inside the bellhousing) and up top. (I could be wrong about which side, its been too long and too many clutch jobs ago- I may even be thinking of an F-150...) It would be really hard to see from the inspection hole at the bottom whichever side it is. Fluid can leak internally (bypass) or externally. It can leak from the master, slave, or the line that connects them. Bleeding your clutch may help in the short term, but most likely you are looking at replacing the hydraulics eventually.

Oh, and save your money resurfacing or replacing the flywheel. If it isn't jumping when you let the clutch out, just leave it alone. Kinda like leaving brake rotors alone during a brake job- no problems, don't create one.

You may be able to do it yourself with some good help, enough tools, and lots of time. I can give you a step by step on how to replace if you need it when you get closer to doing the job.

 

[86ford]

Snake,

its on the drivers side of the bell housing. my question is which one is on top and which ones on bottom? the bleeder or the hydo. line? i THINK the bleeder is on the bottom but i am not 100% and REFUSE to go climb under my b2 to look.

86

 

[snake]

I'm thinking you are right, its a lot easier to get to the bleeder if it is facing down. Not a ton of room in the bellhousing to start with. That was an F-150 I did a few years back, like an '83 model...

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Balls.
I guess I don't have to worry now about how I'm going to spend that pesky tax refund.

I appreciate the help guys, I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[86ford]

Balls.
I guess I don't have to worry now about how I'm going to spend that pesky tax refund.

I appreciate the help guys, I'll let you know what I find out.

if you were in my area i would knock it out for cheap in one day.

snake,
you can bleed the early RBVs solo by pulling the cover on the floor around the shifter up and use your right hand to control the bleeder and your left hand to pump the pedal thats why i know its on the drivers side.

86

 

[feellnfroggy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesnt hydraulic fluid (brake,clutch fluid) expand a bit as it heats up? So wouldn't that mean at subfreezing temps it might do exactly the opposite? Meaning slightly less pressure? Warmer days the fluid would return to its normal state and it drives. I do know hydraulic fluid doesnt compress real easy WHEN IN OPERATING TEMPS. But contracting due to being below operating temp is a different story altogether. Least thats how it makes sense to me.