CA Mandates all trucks must be electric beginning in 2024

[fastpakr]

Rusty - it's worth mentioning (again) that the OP did not interpret the article correctly. The new law only requires manufacturers to offer an electric version in four years. It's not for another 25 years that they're mandating entirely electric.

And what benefit is a 1500 mile range? Realistically, are you -ever- driving more than about half that in a day? I do get that the long recharge times are a pain, but that's a non-issue for some usage where they're doing lower daily mileage and can get by on a single charge.

 

[Grumpaw]

Just put a bunch of EveryReady's in em...they'll run forever...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Rusty - it's worth mentioning (again) that the OP did not interpret the article correctly. The new law only requires manufacturers to offer an electric version in four years. It's not for another 25 years that they're mandating entirely electric.

And what benefit is a 1500 mile range? Realistically, are you -ever- driving more than about half that in a day? I do get that the long recharge times are a pain, but that's a non-issue for some usage where they're doing lower daily mileage and can get by on a single charge.

Some must, every semi truck seems have saddle tanks and every pound of fuel is a pound of freight they can't carry.... if they didn't need it they wouldn't have it.

I think it will be a long time for electric to beat out diesel for the over the road long haul trucks (unless electric trains catch on which doesn't even need batteries) but for short run stuff like UPS delivery trucks and the like they could find a pretty substantial niche.

Recharge time could be dealt with easy on a truck by swappable batteries. They are not so much like a car where the whole thing is passenger space wrapped in unibody.

 

[MikeG]

We've had electric trains for a long time already. They were a huge improvement over steam for many things but evidently lost out to diesel for one reason or another, for long range transport. Probably powerline maintenance. Works fine in the city with commuter rail.

One reason to have a LONG range on a semi is the cost of fuel varies greatly in different states.

Railroads have been experimenting with hybrid locomotives for a while. They make sense when there's a lot of starting/stopping (like cars) as in a switching yard. Not so much when pulling 100+ car trains for miles across relatively flat ground. You'd have to have half the train looking like giant D-cell batteries..... I'm sure someone can photoshop that up.

With lead-acid batteries, a couple hundred pounds for a small car. Semi? Probably an extra trailer to carry them.

 

[fastpakr]

Some must, every semi truck seems have saddle tanks and every pound of fuel is a pound of freight they can't carry.... if they didn't need it they wouldn't have it.

I wonder if it's for driver teams?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I wonder if it's for driver teams?

It could be. I am not that up on heavy trucks.

 

[Snoranger]

We've had electric trains for a long time already. They were a huge improvement over steam for many things but evidently lost out to diesel for one reason or another, for long range transport. Probably powerline maintenance. Works fine in the city with commuter rail.

One reason to have a LONG range on a semi is the cost of fuel varies greatly in different states.

Railroads have been experimenting with hybrid locomotives for a while. They make sense when there's a lot of starting/stopping (like cars) as in a switching yard. Not so much when pulling 100+ car trains for miles across relatively flat ground. You'd have to have half the train looking like giant D-cell batteries..... I'm sure someone can photoshop that up.

With lead-acid batteries, a couple hundred pounds for a small car. Semi? Probably an extra trailer to carry them.

I’m not say they exist, but if trains were real...

The most common train on the planet is electric driven. Most are diesel/electric. The Diesel engine Is just there to supply electricity to drive the traction motors... because battery technology isn’t to the point that it’s cheaper, lighter, easier, etc. than a big Diesel engine.

 

[MikeG]

Agreed, but there has been long distance passenger / freight that was 100% electric with overhead wires.

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Way-Across-Mountains-Electrification/dp/0934406006?tag=959media-20

 

[stmitch]

As a truck driver....

All this is going to do is drive up costs of products in CA.

Why? No one will deliver there.

Battery power would have to come A LONG WAY to get even half way to what a diesel is capable of. I can run my ISX 15 1500 miles between 20 minute fillups.

Not to mention the 80,000 lb gross weight limits would have to be majorly raised inorder for the trucks to carry enough battery to even make it 1/2 that range (in the real world)

Take into account our already aged bridges/roads....thats not going to happen.

CA is shooting themselves in the nuts....like usual.

Let me start by saying that I agree battery trucks have a long way to go before they're even close to ready for long-range OTR trucking.

However, CA is the 5th largest economy in the world. Anybody refusing to ship their products there is making a grave mistake. IF this expands to the other CARB states as well, then you're adding another 100 million people or so that will still need to have things shipped in/out. Somebody's going to step up to fill that need.

CA is like 750 miles at it's longest point. They don't need 1500 miles of range right now. They'll just use diesels for the long parts of the trip and switch cabs at the border. An E Cascadia gets something like 250 miles right now. That's enough for most hauls in CA. In 10 years time, they might be doing far better. Seems like they (truck makers) expect to be anyway.

Very valid point about battery weight impacting the amount of freight that can be hauled. Any idea what percentage of loads actually get close to that 80k limit? Obviously you want as much freight as you can in most cases, but some loads aren't full and others will "cube out" before they "gross out" right?

 

[RonD]

Well diesel/electric trains transfer about 35% of the energy generated by the diesel fuel to the electric motors, its the same for any diesel engine, even in cars/trucks although some are getting close to 42%
(gasoline engines are 25%, very inefficient)

95% of generate electrical power gets to the electric motors on all electric trains, using overhead or 3rd rail power

So no contest on which is more energy efficient, basically 1/2 to 3/4 of liquid fuel energy goes "up in smoke" or generates unused heat, simple as that

But yes the source of the electrical power is in question in many areas, as liquid fuels get more expensive, wind, wave, solar or thermal generated electrical power becomes more cost effective

I think we may see diesel/electric hybrid semi trucks
Electric has way better torque for heavy loads, which is why trains use them
Diesel gives range as needed
And a diesel engine can be set to run at optimum RPM for best efficiency for load, so better MPG, vs variable RPMs in direct drive

Trains didn't go to hybrid diesel/electric because its environmentally better or for the "optics", lol, its because electric motors are just better for propulsion in this use, and the diesel engine can run at a preset RPM under load for best GPM

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I think we may see diesel/electric hybrid semi trucks
Electric has way better torque for heavy loads, which is why trains use them
Diesel gives range as needed

I have mulled it for years, I figure cost must be the reason we haven't seen diesel-electric trucks. Weight being a possible contender too.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Let me start by saying that I agree battery trucks have a long way to go before they're even close to ready for long-range OTR trucking.

However, CA is the 5th largest economy in the world. Anybody refusing to ship their products there is making a grave mistake. IF this expands to the other CARB states as well, then you're adding another 100 million people or so that will still need to have things shipped in/out. Somebody's going to step up to fill that need.

CA is like 750 miles at it's longest point. They don't need 1500 miles of range right now. They'll just use diesels for the long parts of the trip and switch cabs at the border. An E Cascadia gets something like 250 miles right now. That's enough for most hauls in CA. In 10 years time, they might be doing far better. Seems like they (truck makers) expect to be anyway.

Very valid point about battery weight impacting the amount of freight that can be hauled. Any idea what percentage of loads actually get close to that 80k limit? Obviously you want as much freight as you can in most cases, but some loads aren't full and others will "cube out" before they "gross out" right?

No idea on percentages....but unless your hauling foam or other light stuff, youre gonna be close to 80.

But assuming they kept the 80k limit....id bet after battries and stuff to get any kind of range youll only be looking at *maybe* 25-30k left for cargo. Even your average OTR tractor with a light flatbed is 28-30k now.

Im sure they'll still deliver there, but its gonna cost the consumer ALOT more, between needing 2 drivers, 2 trucks, and probably someone to unload/reload at the border (im assuming trailers wont be compatiable), all that will be passed to the consumer.

 

[fastpakr]

Am I understanding you correctly that you're estimating fifty thousand pounds for the batteries 'and stuff'?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

No i just figured since an average tractor is 30 now add another 20 on top of that.

Seeing as how an average tesla sedan is like 2 k heavier then a similar gas. (6k vs 4k), and then add more for more range.

 

[cbxer55]

I've said this before, what is the purpose of an electric vehicle when the power required to charge said vehicle is coming from coal anyway? Unless your grid is powered by nuclear energy all you've done by using an electric vehicle is shift the emissions from one point to another. I think things like that should be factored into decisions before making laws about this crap. California wants all these electric vehicles but have they prepared the electric grid to handle the extra load or ensured its clean enough that it won't be producing just as much emissions as the trucks themselves did?

Try and tell that to your average Tesla driver. I dare you!