Building steering setup? (like stone crusher)

[Hagan]

Good I really didn't want to buy it!

Thanks guys! I'll see if I can find some used stuff!

 

[4.0B2]

post up that you want to buy a super runner in the classified-wanted to buy.

also you could put it in your sig that you want one... that way more people will see it.

 

[Hagan]

I have been doing hours and hours of researching through single swing threads. And it seems like that is the setup to go with.

The problem is I heard it doesn't go well with lift brackets...i guess because the angle the steering rods will have to go from the pitman arm to the drivers side beam will be more extreme. And so will the other side.

I have also been considering using an idler arm...and imitate superlifts design. But of course using chevy 1-ton tie rod ends. I am considering both.

The problem with the idler arm is getting it the same height as the pitman arm. (It would look like crap if it was uneven.

 

[Hagan]

Like this as single swing design...

 

[legoms013]

I have been doing hours and hours of researching through single swing threads. And it seems like that is the setup to go with.

The problem is I heard it doesn't go well with lift brackets...i guess because the angle the steering rods will have to go from the pitman arm to the drivers side beam will be more extreme. And so will the other side.

I have also been considering using an idler arm...and imitate superlifts design. But of course using chevy 1-ton tie rod ends. I am considering both.

The problem with the idler arm is getting it the same height as the pitman arm. (It would look like crap if it was uneven.

It does look like crap, just look at mine. But it is purely a cosmetic deal.

I built a beefier version of Superlifts idler arm, and it drops farther down by about 1/4" (on accident...I didn't make a jig off the other one ) and my centerlink is not perfectly level with the vehicle as a result. It is not really that big of a deal. One of these days I will take it out, cut it a tadge shorter and weld it back up so that the centerlink is level, till then I lose sleep over the fact. Other than that it is purely a desire of cosmetic purposes. My point being that it isn't that hard to get them the drop the same amount. Even if you go totally custom, the pitman arm drop is gonna be the same dimension. And if it doesn't end up perfect, cut it and weld it back up correctly

Notice it isn't perfect:

 

[Hagan]

I didn't mean a 1/4" difference...more like 4" difference! I honestly can't tell with your setup.

I can't tell but what is the idler arm mounted too? I think going custom and copying your design (superlifts) would be the best choice.

It doesn't look like there is much to it. But what worries me is finding the right sleeve/bushing for the idler arm. I don't want to put something squishy in there and the idler arm to move all over the place. Its kinda pointless for me to buy a super runner to just tear it apart and modify everything. Might as well start from scratch.

 

[Hagan]

Ok so here's a question.

In order to have the idler arm closer to the two steering arms I would need a drop pitman arm?

To avoid bump steer the steering arms need to be level...even in this design right?

 

[disciplerocks]

I ordered all my stuff from Ruffstuff except the center link. It is a bracket made for hydro steering. I am running all heims. They may wear quicker than TRE's. I would recommend TRE's if its mostly a street vehicle. Mine is my winter beater, and hardly gets driven in the summer.

seriously, look thru disciplerocks build...
http://therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92406

i'd start at the beginning.. just b/c its a good read, but idk what page the steering starts on.

Thanks dude. Can't rep ya though.

 

[legoms013]

I didn't mean a 1/4" difference...more like 4" difference! I honestly can't tell with your setup.

I can't tell but what is the idler arm mounted too? I think going custom and copying your design (superlifts) would be the best choice.

It doesn't look like there is much to it. But what worries me is finding the right sleeve/bushing for the idler arm. I don't want to put something squishy in there and the idler arm to move all over the place. Its kinda pointless for me to buy a super runner to just tear it apart and modify everything. Might as well start from scratch.

I am using polyurethane leaf spring bushings for chevy leafs (the ones RuffStuff sells) and I also used their DOM bushing sleeves for my custom idler. I spent a whopping $20 in parts and mat'l to make it. The main part of it is some 1/2 .120" wall square tubing. If I were to do it over I think I would used 3/16" wall next time. Sorry I don't have a pic of the bracket off the truck, but if I come across one, I will post it here.

Ok so here's a question.

1) In order to have the idler arm closer to the two steering arms I would need a drop pitman arm?

2) To avoid bump steer the steering arms need to be level...even in this design right?

1) In theory you could make any kind of system you wanted, as long as it was based off of the 3 different drop pitman arms that the aftermarket provides. But the Superlift kit utilizes the very common and relatively cheap "standard" drop pitman arm that comes with most lift kits. It is advertised for 4" kits, but it truly only drops 2". SJ P/N FA400

2) Yes, with any of the steering systems, the tie-rods themselves absolutely have to be "flat" and parallel with the frame rails...this results in nearly "stock" driving characteristics, minimal bumpsteer, and the longest tire-tread longevity.


The Superlift idea doesn't completely remove bumpsteer even when the tie-rods are position flat, due to the tie-rods themselves being slightly shorter than the really should be. That being said, you will be hard pressed to notice any "bumpsteering" when driving a RBV equipped with a properly setup SuperRunner kit (or reproduction). I am biased towards Superlift's design since it results in a fairly strong setup, that can be fabricated using off the shelf type parts...best bang for your buck kinda thing....but that does not mean the other kinds of setups can't be made to work for you either. In fact they are all viable options, it just depends on your goals, your needs, your abilities and your wallet. Each system has its trade-offs (with the SuperRunner being sort of expensive new, hard to come by used, and with it not completely doing away with bumpsteer). Single/Double swing arms are best for eliminating bumpsteer, but they are also more "fabrication" orientated and IMHO not as strong due to the bends required (also making adjustment slightly harder). But they are the creme of the crop when it comes to eliminating toe changes as the suspension cycles. For go fast situations these are the systems to pursue. For DD or general offroading, I feel the SuperRunner idea is better suited. For dedicated offroading/crawling, an overkill/oversized Stonecrushed setup is what I would suggest (like disciplerock's above ^).

 

[Hagan]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me.

This will be my dd. So the superlift method is what I need.

 

[legoms013]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me.

This will be my dd. So the superlift method is what I need.

If you are trying to save some money, you don't necessarily have to go with 1-ton rod ends......If I were you I would find a used SuperRunner kit and rock it with the stock TREs, which are plenty strong for weekend wilderness travels and are readily available at most parts stores. This would be cheaper than what I have done.

With the 1-ton stuff you would need a reamer, and some tie-rods made with either welded on bungs or threaded ends. Once you ream your knuckles and centerlink, it is hard to undo the deed (centerlink you could weld up, knuckles could be drilled out and a tapered insert could be used or all new knuckles). You could always 'ton-the-steering at a later date if you decide the existing stuff isn't as strong as you'd like.

I'm just laying out some of the pro's and cons.

Let me know if you have any other questions...and good luck

 

[4.0B2]

This thread should be a sticky or something... Ttb steering tech is a biggie in out ttb world. The steering is the reason most ditch it and sas.

Thanks to the 2 guys here talking (Disciplerocks and legoms) I'm sticking with the ttb instead of an sas on my b2.