A planetary problem?

[footee]

I picked up this truck, 97 Ranger 4.0 5-speed manual t-case, with a grinding problem. Put it in first or reverse, slowly let the clutch out while giving gas, it grabs for a second then just grinds. In 4-low it moves fine but I didn’t give it any gas. Guy said clutch is a year old and it feels good and tight. The best I could tell, the sound seemed to come from the transfer case. Am I in the right direction? Like the planetary gear shot sh*t... Or am I off and it’s a tranny problem?

 

[adsm08]

If it does it in 4x4 and not 2wd then the problem is in the t-case. Time to open that sucker up.

 

[footee]

Does it in 2wd and 4-hi. I creeped it on and off the trailer in 4-lo but didn’t want to gas it and risk not being able to move it at all.

 

[adsm08]

I think I would pull the trans and t-case and crack them both open. If there is any way you can try to take it for a short drive and get it through all the gears too see if it is all gears, or just 1/R, that would help narrow it down.

I am leaning towards it being the T-case still since there isn't much shared between 1 and R, but if it does it in all gears that would def point at the transfer case being the issue.

You could also drain the fluids from both through a coffee filter and look for sparkly.

 

[footee]

I’ve already dropped the case, drained it before I dropped it. Fluid was black as expected and a little over filled since I pulled the fill plug first and some drained then. Didn’t appear to have any metal in it but I didn’t much examine it either. I figured any shards would be settled to the bottom and wouldn’t drain, seems the low point is lower than the drain. Gonna bolt up another case tomorrow and see if the problem goes away. Sucks bolting one up just to take it back off. It’s an auto case so I can’t keep it.

 

[footee]

Meh, ignore this thread. Got another case bolted up and it’s still doing the same thing...guess it’s time to get into the tranny...

 

[Captain Ledd]

Yeah, something like that at least eliminates one culprit. My guess is that in 4 low it have enough torque multiplication that it didn't slip. My guess is you have a few stripped gears in that trans.

 

[footee]

I’m an idiot! After checking on the transmission, draining it, pulling the top cover off to inspect, there was no real evidence of bad gears. There were some shavings on the plug but I didn’t see anything bad inside. After a whole bunch of reading and contemplating, I decided to go ahead and pull the clutch to inspect it... Sure enough, the clutch appears to be the problem. The splined center of the disc was turning against the springs. And the pilot bearing is completely shot.

 

[Captain Ledd]

I've heard of some broken springs, but never that. Like the rivets/prongs all sheered off?

You might want to give the input of that transmission a good look-over too. Any oil leaking out the front?

 

[Craig0320]

Your not an idiot. You we're always looking in the right direction and you finally found it. This information will help people in the future.

 

[footee]

I don’t know exactly how it’s attached to the disc, but you can see in the pick where it is clocked and has rotated against the springs. The input shaft does have side to side play, so under advisement from a tranny specialist, a rebuild is in order. Otherwise, it’ll probably do the same thing to another disc, and ruin another pilot bearing.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement! I really felt by the sounds, it was in the tranny or t-case.

 

[Captain Ledd]

Good call on the rebuild, at least a partial one to check on the input. No idiocy anywhere. You had a noise/problem, made proper checks, and solved it.

I'm surprised the clutch didn't just slip instead of bending all those prongs out. Or just loose traction at the tires for that matter.

 

[4x4junkie]

The input shaft (when unsupported at the end) wiggling a few millimeters side-side is normal, but if it's real wobbly or has any roughness at all when you turn it (or has noticeable end-play), then yeah, rebuild.
Also make sure the pilot bearing surface isn't damaged.

×2, glad to hear you found the issue (and for reporting back).

Go with LuK for your replacement. I've seen issues like this with other brands way too often.

 

[footee]

The input shaft (when unsupported at the end) wiggling a few millimeters side-side is normal, but if it's real wobbly or has any roughness at all when you turn it (or has noticeable end-play), then yeah, rebuild.
Also make sure the pilot bearing surface isn't damaged.

×2, glad to hear you found the issue (and for reporting back).

Go with LuK for your replacement. I've seen issues like this with other brands way too often.

There is some play, I don’t know what’s considered “within spec”. There doesn’t seem to be any grinding/roughness and no endplay at all. As far as I can tell, the pilot bearing surface still looks alright. I found 2 pilot bearings left over from other clutches. One is a little tighter on the input shaft than the other. I think it was from a 3.0. Is there any difference between the 3.0 and 4.0 pilot bearings? Inside or outside diameters?

 

[4x4junkie]

Couldn't tell you on the pilot differences across engines, though I would think ones of similar years would all be the same...

Back around 2009 I bought a M5OD out of a '90 2.9L Ranger for my BII (it was said to have 123K miles on it), as the FM146 had started to make some bearing noise. The input shaft I recall had about 4-5mm of wobble with it sitting out of the truck (no end play or roughness I could feel). I did try to shim it a tad tighter, though even with the end play well within spec it still wiggled a noticeable amount.

Kindof like with the front axle stub shafts with the locking hubs removed, I just took the wobble as normal since that end of the shaft normally would be supported in use. 8 years later and no problems or noises to speak of with it.