300 vs 302

[85_Ranger4x4]

Well if we're picking any motor, I'd take 351C. But the 400 is a great motor too, tons of torque. Not as much available in the aftermarket though.

My dad's one ton is what sold me on them, for a truck you can't hardly beat them out of the box.

I can only imagine what playing with the ignition and adding a 4bbl could do to a fresh engine, our stock everything high mileage mill still isn't much of a slouch when it comes to pulling.

 

[Ozwynn]

It is not, it has plenty of torque, youve just been brainwashed.

you are assuming alot. nowhere in my statement did I defend the 300. All I said was that the 302 is a crappy motor for towing.

give me a 390 or a 460 over either any day (or even a 6.9/7.3L Diesel for that matter). Small Blocks were never really meant for towing anything other than a Jet sky.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

Ofcourse we'd take a big block over a small block... but when your choices are 300ci I6 or 302ci V8 then the obvious choice is the small block.

 

[Ozwynn]

well I have towed with both the 300 and the 302. the 302 was in a 76 F100 (pre 460 swap) and even with a mild cam and a 4bbl it was worthless in the grades. the 300 was in an 83 F150 that belonged to my cousin and it was also worthless in the grades, but when i was down to second gear screaming the engine to keep the RPMs up my cousin was just chugging along.

Personally I wouldn't take either engine for a tow rig.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

My question is...how can one engine turning 1800RPM and another engine turning 1800RPM be spinning faster/slower then the other one? Regardless of stroke?

Its easy for people to put down the 300, Its slow, noisy, and uses alot of gas. But for something im going to work day in, day out, with little matinence and to rely on it to get the job done, ill take a 300 anyday over a 302.

A 300 makes less peak torque then a 302, by 10 ftlbs. if you wanna get techincal compare torque charts of both engines. How much torque is the 302 making at 12, 13, 14, 15, 1600RPM? My guess no where near the 300's peak, unless the 302 has the flattest torque curve ever (which it dont, its just as peaky as the 300 and its on the wrong side of the band). If you really think that higher RPM torque is better for a truck then i understand why you drive a honda.

later,
Dustin

 

[Nipplechops]

My question is...how can one engine turning 1800RPM and another engine turning 1800RPM be spinning faster/slower then the other one? Regardless of stroke?

He is referring to the piston speed difference for a given RPM between the two mills. Longer stroke means the piston has to travel the stroke distance faster thus requiring more acceleration and deceleration when it changes direction, thus more forces acting upon internals, yadda yadda.

Also factor in the longer con rods needed to span the cylinder usually means more mass and more mass changing direction means more inertia to overcome, etc.

Fun stuff!

 

[bobbywalter]

My question is...how can one engine turning 1800RPM and another engine turning 1800RPM be spinning faster/slower then the other one? Regardless of stroke?

Its easy for people to put down the 300, Its slow, noisy, and uses alot of gas. But for something im going to work day in, day out, with little matinence and to rely on it to get the job done, ill take a 300 anyday over a 302.

A 300 makes less peak torque then a 302, by 10 ftlbs. if you wanna get techincal compare torque charts of both engines. How much torque is the 302 making at 12, 13, 14, 15, 1600RPM? My guess no where near the 300's peak, unless the 302 has the flattest torque curve ever (which it dont, its just as peaky as the 300 and its on the wrong side of the band). If you really think that higher RPM torque is better for a truck then i understand why you drive a honda.





later,
Dustin

my 302 makes more power then any factory 300 six at any rpm. with a stroker setup its real ugly...


piston speed and bearing speed factor in to longevity as well.


the piston speed has the greatest effect on the low end torque in these
examples and that is where the 300 has its advantage over a run of the mill car 302....

for a ranger a 300 would not be a choice for me....302 stroked is just too easy. and both engines in my exact application.... are not my first choice


these days its some sort of mid power diesel or 6.0 gm engine to do what i need done.


but in a 2wd truck the 302 is the king...in a mid build 4x4 running 35's the 302 is better still then the 300 but needs to be stroked to make it fun....running bigger then 35's....stock 351/347 stroker is needed for power to spare in hi range...if you dont do hi range wheelin/boggin then a 4.0 is great.


i have had quite a few 300s over the years and for street use they are fine in loaded conditions over a stock truck 302...but step up a little with the 302from stock which is easily done..the 300 is just not worth preference...has no value.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

My question is...how can one engine turning 1800RPM and another engine turning 1800RPM be spinning faster/slower then the other one? Regardless of stroke?

Its easy for people to put down the 300, Its slow, noisy, and uses alot of gas. But for something im going to work day in, day out, with little matinence and to rely on it to get the job done, ill take a 300 anyday over a 302.

A 300 makes less peak torque then a 302, by 10 ftlbs. if you wanna get techincal compare torque charts of both engines. How much torque is the 302 making at 12, 13, 14, 15, 1600RPM? My guess no where near the 300's peak, unless the 302 has the flattest torque curve ever (which it dont, its just as peaky as the 300 and its on the wrong side of the band). If you really think that higher RPM torque is better for a truck then i understand why you drive a honda.

later,
Dustin

Why would you pull a load at 12, 13, 14, 15, 1600RPM? Oh wait, thats where the 300 makes power. Beyond that and the 302 blows it away. So, yes, if you were pulling a load with 15 foot intervals where the engine was only allowed to reach 1600rpm then yes a 300 will work just fine. But highway merging and hill climbing and I'll just downshift that 302 so it doesn't have to be at 1600rpm.

 

[bobbywalter]

he only pulls loads at 45 mph.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Thats where you take off with a load...thats where the 302 pukes.

later,
Dustin

 

[Gotta_gofast]

...if you don't have enough power to take off with a first gear ratio, how are you ever going to use 2nd, 3rd, or 4th?

 

[choped84]

i did a 300 swap in a 85 bronco 2 and i love it. mine has 4:10 gears with a aod overdrive trans.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

...if you don't have enough power to take off with a first gear ratio, how are you ever going to use 2nd, 3rd, or 4th?

Exactly.

Givin the same trans and rear end, lets say An E4OD and 3.55's, with lets say 8000lbs and a steep hill, the 300 is going to break the trailer moving, and you dont need nearly as much torque to keep it rolling as you do to get it rolling.

Thats what people dont seem to understand, you need your torque the most from a dead stop, and at a dead stop your not turning 3500RPM, your turning 800, 1200 or so when the TQ converter engages, thats where you want your torque.

If the torque converter engages at 1200rpm, and the 300 is making 235ftlbs, and the 302 is making 150, whos gonna grunt the bigger load? By the time the 302 hits 3500rpm sure the 300 is out of steam, but its already got the load rolling fast enough to where it can make due with less power.

later,
Dustin

 

[Gotta_gofast]

...until the 300 needs to pull that load up a hill or accelerate.

Edit:And why would you take two different engines with different characteristics and compare them with gears that only advantage the I6? Since the 302 can use the extra gear and get in its power range, then use them. The I6 wouldn't be able to breathe with that type of gear, but the 302would love it. So, I'm pretty sure that the better engine is the engine that pulls the load at operating speed, not the engine that pulls harder for the first 15 feet off the line.

 

[RacinNdrummin]

I cant think of an engine, whether in a car or truck, that drives around town at 1600 RPM unless your seriously dragging ass.

I really loved my 300 in my van that I had, especially when it would slow to from 65 to 50 up a hill near me, when my ranger that weighs almost the same will continue to accellerate at the same speed in forth gear.

The 300 is no torque monster, and as I said above, if you like towing your boat at 25mph, all the time, then yes, the 300 is better.

Also if you compare the torque peaks, in general a 302/5.0 truck engine will peak at around 2400RPM and a 300 will peak at around 2k, so its really not that much of a difference.