30% salary cut at Ford

[Evan]

Dang,maintenance men around here make $18 per hour,do you want a car made by $14 hr employee?

If it's a good quality car, sure. Hourly wage does not dictate quality. In fact, quality generally declines with the advent of a union. Why? It's much more unlikely for someone to get fired for crappy work in a union environment.

There's a reason why only 9% of the private sector is unionized: most companies that get a union shoved down their throat go out of business in the long run. The list is endless. It includes airlines, steel companies, retail chains, and soon...the big three.

When I interviewed for my jobs, the first question I asked was if the company was unionized. If they were, I got up and left because I wanted to work for a company that had a future and encouraged competition and innovation. I also wanted to be paid what I was actually worth. Now, that decision has paid off. My company is making it through the recession just fine, as they have reasonable payroll costs and hard workers.

 

[thegoat4]

Right. But once you're out of money, you CAN'T pay any wages. And rediculous, inflated wages and benefits are one of the major factors that have caused the big three to run out of money. Pay/benefit cuts and job cuts suck, but when there is no money, there is NO other option. Right now, the UAW has a choice: accept substantial pay/benefit cuts or loose the jobs compeletly.

Of course, nobody cares what Evan on TRS thinks a fair wage should be. But the free market and available capital are the deciding factors. The big three have next to 0 capital. It's not rocket science here: if you don't have money, you can't pay people money. The only way they are making payroll right now is by borrowing money at scary interest rates. It's like us putting rent and utilities on our credit cards...


V8-power, nobody is blaming the unions for EVERYTHING. Don't be rediculous. The economic downturn is to blame a little...it has caused the union-death of these companies to come sooner than it would have.

You keep hammering this union thing. If the unions are really the cause of Detroit's woes, why are Toyota and other foreign makers who do not have to operate under the iron fist of the UAW also struggling? For that matter, why were the unions not destroying the auto market two years ago, but the very same unions who have since made many concessions in both pay and benefits now causing the problems?

I don't think you can give an honest answer to those questions that ends up blaming the unions.

Now, if you want to say unions are part of the problem, OK, you can argue that. But so far 100% of your theory about the fall in auto sales revolves around union labor. No wonder v8power had the impression people around here were blaming unions for EVERYTHING. It wasn't ridiculous at all.

And you keep ignoring the fact that Ford cutting wages and benefits to their workers could have repercussions that will bite Ford in the ass later. It is in Ford's (and other companies') own best interest to strike a balance, even if that means taking on a loan.

 

[Evan]

You keep hammering this union thing. If the unions are really the cause of Detroit's woes, why are Toyota and other foreign makers who do not have to operate under the iron fist of the UAW also struggling?

What are you talking about? Toyota will likely post a small net profit in 2008. GM LOST 9 billion in the 4th quarter alone. Toyota did not need (and will not need) to suck money out of taxpayers in the form of bailouts (GM, Chrysler) or mortgage all their assets (Ford).

Toyota is strongly capitalized. GM is beyond broke. The big three have spent all their money and maxed out all their credit. You haven't looked at the balance sheets and cash flow statements. I have.

Ford will need a bailout any day...they're burning through 1 billion (of borrowed money) a month.

 

[rangerguy1996]

did you look at fords 2010 line up they will be back on top soon. then there will be no money problems. with cars like the new sho and svt rapter and the new ecoboost motors. the SHO has 365hp thats more than the mustang gt.

 

[Dar70]

did you look at fords 2010 line up they will be back on top soon. then there will be no money problems. with cars like the new sho and svt rapter and the new ecoboost motors. the SHO has 365hp thats more than the mustang gt.

Agreed. Doomsayers will be proven wrong. Thngs will bounce back.

 

[powa ranger]

Cuts at the top do NOTHING, because that's such a small cost overall.

did you know that when airline companys cut back on how many olives they served with their meals they saved more money than i could hope to ever make or spend in my lifetime. also about the whole 500$ per unit sold every ford you see on the road i want you to tally and take the total tally and multiply that by 500. trust me thats alot of money they could be saveing.

 

[68Mercury250Ranger]

I can't speak for the US but here in Ontario, Toyota pays basically the same hourly wages as the unionized automakers. they expect a lot more from their employees and those who work hard are well paid . They do not pay rediculous benefits or excessive sick days. A job there is not guaranteed if you are lazy

is there something wrong with that? it couldn't happen in a unionized plant!

I have a neighbor across from us who is a Toyota Exec. and he is verywell paid, but he works his ass off.

I have never worked for a unionized shop and will never. I am a truck/coach mechanic lisenced since 1992, worked my way up through the Ford heavy truck system since starting as an apprentice. when they sold the division off to Daimler/Freightliner, I stayed about a year and then moved on.

I have friends in the same trade that work in a unionized environment, there is no way they would keep their jobs in the "real world" ..
I also have friends in the same trade who like myself have never worked unionized, and they excel if they are worthy and fail if they not.

My workplace is slow some days but we are still getting 36-40 hours a week every week. If we were a unionized shop we would no longer exist.
Truck Sales are declining but better than most.

The unions have been killing the auto/autoparts industry here for many years, I noticed this as soon as I got into the trade, realizing people building cars with no marketable skills were making more than the skilled tradespeople repairing them.

If the big three go down, all the pension funds/benefits/unions will go down with them.

Cut/Cut/Cut across the board same % or say goodbye to all the jobs .

hey Canadians are just as scared.

If we are lucky the unions will learn when GM falls, if not maybe after Chrysler.
personally I hope it doesn't need to do that far.

 

[hades]

Uh-oh... I just feel bad for the employees of Ford. I bet they are already thinking of resigning too.

__________________
automotive parts

 

[tempforce]

"(("For those of you terrified of communism, yes, this is wealth redistribution. It gets used because it works when the economy is this far out of balance. Look at the recovery from the great depression--they taxed the hell out of the most wealthy and practically gave money away to the lower and middle class. And you know what the economy did as a result? It grew. We all raised and educated a bunch of kids, built a bunch of industries, invented a bunch of technology, and created a bunch of artwork all at the same time. Among other things, that gave rise to a generation wise enough to deal with civil rights."))"

that policy actually caused the u.s.'s depression to last twice as long as in Europe. what got us out of the depression was ww2.
as mentioned above, legacy deadbeats sitting around all day drawing pay doesn't happen in non-union shops. lazy people are let go as well.
cut the corporate taxes to 20% and companies would start returning their business operations back to the states. cut wages 10% and get rid of all income taxes and you would actually get a income boost of 25%.
a national sales tax of 1% would take care of all federal constitutional obligations.
a import tax of 20-25% would force companies to make products locally.
the import tax could take care of all non-constitutional federal obligations.
cc

 

[Frank The Tank]

Am I the only person that also took a pay-cut? and couldn't afford a new vehicles payments if it was reduced regardless of make or model?

I don't think awesome cars.... are gonna mean awesome sales numbers.
I'm working 2 jobs, and saving every dime i can...... i'm investing in the future (the future of cash) like that's gonna hold it's value if things keep going downhill, maybe I'll invest in more guns while I'm at it.

Frank

 

[Trollbait]

While they were willing cash in on, and hoped to expand more into, the lucrative SUV market, Toyota didn't rely on it like the american companies. Forget the Prius, when gas prices spiked up last summer, they had the Yaris and Corolla to sell. The Focus is a good car, but Ford didn't have B class car available. GM's answer was to rebadge a Daewoo that didn't get much better fuel economy than their next segment car up. Toyota is doing better because their management planned for the future. Unions may have caused problems, but they don't call the shots on what the company sells.

I've read Atlas Shrugged. I believe Ayn Rand was deeply traumitized growing up in a totalitarion state calling itself communist. At its basic core, her philosophy called for the formation of a new aristrocracy. One unburdened by the nobel obligation held by others in the past. A king may think he is descended from the gods, but it's the peasants that grow the food.

 

[Blueranger99]

i think a big part of the problem is that the union workers who start right out highschool are able to retire at such a early age, and they could live another 30-40 years after retiring. i dont think the big three should have to pay people for nothing when they could still be working till they are 65. im a drywaller, the company thati work for does all scale work (prevailing wages), but we all bust our asses, and we see union guys on the same jobs sitting around reading magazines and newspapers for hours on end. then they wonder why the unions get kicked off these jobs, its because tha general contractor is paying them the same amount and getting half the production. i think unions are a cancer in this country and need to be cut out. im not saying all union workers are bad, but a good number of them are lazy and overpaid. and we dont need redistribution of wealth, we just need some of the lazy ass people to get jobs and stop suckin the system dry.

 

[347 Ranger]

It depends on how bad you want to have a job ,If the ford workers don't take the same cuts that GM and Chrysler workers did ford won't be able to compeat with the market . The workers won't have a job at all if Ford goes under . Remember GM and Chrysler are Goverment subsidised so they already have an advantage like 0 % financing that the people pay for .Ford dumping on the market like they do is hurting the resale value of our trucks and hurting sales as well Example MY son bought a F-150 in December 2007 for $52000.00. 9 months later my sister bought the same truck For $38000.00 this makes my son's truck worth about $32000.00. A 20000.00 hit in 9 months is t enough that it forces guys to buy a Toyota that will hold its value won't lose that much in 3 years. This loss is caused buy Ford alone how can our trucks hold there value when Ford devalues them at the end of every year.

 

[347 Ranger]

It depends on how bad you want to have a job ,If the ford workers don't take the same cuts that GM and Chrysler workers did ford won't be able to compeat with the market . The workers won't have a job at all if Ford goes under . Remember GM and Chrysler are Goverment subsidised so they already have an advantage like 0 % financing that the people pay for .Ford dumping on the market like they do is hurting the resale value of our trucks and hurting sales as well Example MY sone bought a F-150 SC in December 2007 for 452000.00. 9 months later my sister bought the same truck For $ 38000.00 this makes my son's truck worth about $32000.00. A 20000.00 hit in 9 momths is to enough that it forces guys to buy a Toyota that will hold its value won't lose that much in 3 years. This loss is caused buy Ford alone how can our trucks hold there value when Ford devalues them at the end of every year.

 

[tempforce]

in japan, the top wage earners may not receive more than 10 times the amount of the lowest paid worker in the company.
if the company requires a pay cut. all workers take a pay cut, at the same percentage. same thing when pay raises come around, everyone gets one.
now merit pay and long term pay increases are done as a employee stays long term with a company. if you start working for a company in japan, it is as assumed that you will retire with the same company. only problem is, that due to the cost of living, most lower waged people must work two jobs to afford to live in japan.