'08 Sport Trac

[Will]

A big difference. You obviously haven't worked on the newer Explorers. Did you know that the rear springs are prone to cracking and breaking, just like Escorts in the 90s? Or that the lower control arm bushings like to dry up and rot prematurely? The parts are weaker and more expensive to service than a solid axle. The IRS in these things has far more problems than the solid axle.

If what you are saying is true--and I doubt it--it only reflects on Ford, not on the independent rear. We've had SUVs (not Fords) since 1999 with IRS and I can't think of a negative thing to say about them.

For what it's worth, my daily driver has a 7,500# capacity full float axle so it's not like I'm an IRS homer. I just hate people throwing blankets of hate over things (IRS in general, not those specific issues with Fords that you allege) without knowing what they are talking about. If you have references, please post them.

 

[JohnnyO]

Snnnniiiiiffffff, ahhhhhhh. Snnnnniiiiiiiffffffff, ahhhhhh, new truck smell.

Ride and handling is worlds better than my '05. Solid without being harsh, smooth without being flabby. Only 18 miles on it, I'll report back as I drive it more. On my '05 I tossed the stock shocks at 12k miles, the thing was dangerous with them.
MPG ratings are the same on the '08 for both engines, I don't think you'd need the V8 unless you tow a trailer. My 4.0 '05 had plenty of power.

Pics when it's daylight and quits raining.

 

[Will]

Yeah, I really like the way our Pilot feels with 4-wheel independent. All we have is curves and I can tailgate cars half the size through the sharpest of them. A pothole doesn't shudder the entire car--you just here a light thump-thump. I've never towed anything except I pulled my buddies old Chevy pickup out when he rolled backwards into his pond.

There's a reason they all went to that and it wasn't just to piss people off. They'll all do it in a one-ton version some day and I'll probably have to stop visiting vehicle related websites because the whining and crying will be too much for me.

 

[Jspafford]

I can't wait to see the size of the coil springs they will need to hold up the ass of an IRS 1 ton towing a 21K trailer.

Whew, that will be a nice cushy ride....

Somethings should just be left alone.. If you don't like bone jarring, get the hell out of a 1-ton.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

If what you are saying is true--and I doubt it--it only reflects on Ford, not on the independent rear. We've had SUVs (not Fords) since 1999 with IRS and I can't think of a negative thing to say about them.

For what it's worth, my daily driver has a 7,500# capacity full float axle so it's not like I'm an IRS homer. I just hate people throwing blankets of hate over things (IRS in general, not those specific issues with Fords that you allege) without knowing what they are talking about. If you have references, please post them.

Yes, it is true, I have had a number of late model Explorers come into my shop for these exact problems; don't call me a liar. I'm just stating what I see. Want me to post up my boss' phone number? That's about all I can do, not that I need to prove it to you since you're set in your ways.

I do hate IRS. It's about all I work on since my shop specializes in Foreign vehicles. It sucks to work on, the parts are expensive, and it doesn't flex well. Lifting it is out of the question. Independent suspension doesn't belong on trucks IMO. Want a nice ride? Get an SUV or a car. A truck is truck, it's supposed to haul and go places other types of vehicles can't. The reason they went to IRS is for comfort. I'm sorry Will, CV axles will never withstand the abuse regular axles will take unless you go to military spec, in which the cost will be outrageous. Ever replace a Porsche CV shaft? Ha. That's what I'll say about that.

I'm glad you've had good experience with the IRS, I haven't and I won't ever own a truck with IRS.

 

[Jspafford]

Not to mention having to have all 4 wheels aligned.. That could get expensive.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Yeah, I really like the way our Pilot feels with 4-wheel independent. All we have is curves and I can tailgate cars half the size through the sharpest of them. A pothole doesn't shudder the entire car--you just here a light thump-thump. I've never towed anything except I pulled my buddies old Chevy pickup out when he rolled backwards into his pond.

There's a reason they all went to that and it wasn't just to piss people off. They'll all do it in a one-ton version some day and I'll probably have to stop visiting vehicle related websites because the whining and crying will be too much for me.

That is how I would discribe the ride in the Explorer. It does have a huge list of TSB's related to rear axle, I always thought it was one of those first year of production things. So far suspensionwise it has been fine, I think it has around 70k on it.

 

[Snowplow]

My cousin has a 02 sport trac he bought new, 70,000 miles with no problems to report. The shocks were junk a good long while ago and I replaced them, what a job that was. The rear shocks have a top bolt design, the stud on the shock mount was so long it was less then 1/4 of an inch from the floor of the bed. No tool that I owned would fit in the space provided so in the long run, save yourself the hassle and spend the half hour pulling the bed off. It saved me a ton of grief doing it that way.

His wife has a 06 Explorer 4x4 with the IRS and has no issues thus far, my uncle has a 04 explorer 4x4 with 65,000 on it and has had no irs issues. My granddad has a 05 Aviator (Lincolns explorer) and I have personally driven it across country with no issues at all. Im sure there is explorers out there with IRS issues, but when you talk about a suv that is sold in massive numbers, there will always be some that come back with problems. You always hear the bad, never the good.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

My cousin has a 02 sport trac he bought new, 70,000 miles with no problems to report. The shocks were junk a good long while ago and I replaced them, what a job that was. The rear shocks have a top bolt design, the stud on the shock mount was so long it was less then 1/4 of an inch from the floor of the bed. No tool that I owned would fit in the space provided so in the long run, save yourself the hassle and spend the half hour pulling the bed off. It saved me a ton of grief doing it that way.

His wife has a 06 Explorer 4x4 with the IRS and has no issues thus far, my uncle has a 04 explorer 4x4 with 65,000 on it and has had no irs issues. My granddad has a 05 Aviator (Lincolns explorer) and I have personally driven it across country with no issues at all. Im sure there is explorers out there with IRS issues, but when you talk about a suv that is sold in massive numbers, there will always be some that come back with problems. You always hear the bad, never the good.

I think the Explorer is a great SUV, even the late models. I have nothing against SUVs having IRS. It's pickup trucks that I believe should have solid axles.

I guess the issue is from a mechanic's standpoint. Parts for a solid axle are cheap and easy to work on. IRS has more components, and often they are more expensive. For example, a VW Toureg's lower rear control arms are about $250 (my cost) a piece, ball joint included. I can buy an entire solid axle with that from a junkyard and still have money left over.

 

[JohnnyO]

So far I will note that the back seat has more legroom and the bed is not quite as deep as my old Sport Trac. Handles real well. Like many Ford automatics it will start out in 2nd gear if you put it in 2nd but this one will also start out in 3rd if you put it in 3rd. I had downshifted coming down a hill and just left it in 3rd, when the light turned green I hit the gas and it barely moved.
Ordered a soft tonneau from Summit today.
Now I'm trying to figure out where to mount the XM.

 

[Jspafford]

Wait, You bought it? I thought you hadn't decided yet!

 

[JohnnyO]

I hadn't decided when I first posted. I lease but I liked my '05 but I wanted to see what a new one would cost versus buying my old one, which needs tires now and probably brakes soon, not to mention the rust. Lease on the new one is not much more than I was paying on my old one.

 

[Will]

What's the problem with coil springs in the rear? Hummers have IRS with rear coils as does a Unimog (on a straight axle, of course)--those are both real trucks. The main benefit of a leaf spring is it's a dirt cheap suspension--one part does it all. It doesn't matter if you dan't care how it rides.

IFS is a lot better for high speed use offroad. The suspension is lighter and reacts a lot more quickly to inputs. It's not less durable either. Hummers have been around and in service for almost 25 years. Before that they had the 151 Jeep--also on independent suspension. Want to guess why the old straight axle Jeep was replaced with an independent suspension Jeep in 1960? The straight axled Jeeps can't be driven fast enough to keep up in the cold war scenarios. Armor can travel 45mph cross country.

There's nothing delicate about a Hummer--it can carry a heavy load, keep up, doesn't get stuck. A Superduty wouldn't last out there, I gaurentee it. It would beat itself to death in a few months of military use. A Hummer has a 10,000# GVWR and they are loaded and roaring around at full speed with their everyone-hates-it 6.2/6.5 diesels going 10 years between overhauls.

 

[2manyfords]

A Hummer has a 10,000# GVWR and they are loaded and roaring around at full speed with their everyone-hates-it 6.2/6.5 diesels going 10 years between overhauls.

You must be refering to the original hummer, not those POS hummers that are sold at the GM dealerships.

 

[4x4RangerGuy]

You must be refering to the original hummer, not those POS hummers that are sold at the GM dealerships.

+1

Will, do you have any idea the cost of the CV shafts or even just the springs on those Hummers? Notice I said MILITARY spec. Regular consumers can't be expected to part with that kind of money even for that strength...not that a Hummer is desirable anyway in most cases. It's great for its military application. Anyway, the GM H2s are nothing more than Chevy Tahoe's and the H3s are just Colorado's. Both use a live axle w/ coil springs. I mentioned the Porsche CV shafts because you'd probably flip out if you knew how much I get them for, including discount.

I don't have a problem with coil springs, they're great. Many vehicles use them nowadays and it's pretty amazing what they can do. I have a problem with the suspension system outside of the springs. Control arms, more and more these days, are coming with the ball joints integral with the arm. Meaning, you have a bad ball joint, you need to buy the whole arm. Also, due to the complexity and shape of many IRS systems, less so with IFS because you have more space to work with, replacing control arms and bushings can be a pain.

Solid axles aren't meant for speed, you're right. They are meant to take abuse, and be easy to work on, and last longer than most vehicles considering what they're put through. All things I believe a pickup truck should achieve. If you want speed, get a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. The IFS and IRS will shine all day.