Quick power out of a 2.9???

[rickcdewitt]

Some people (like myself) noticed that some 2.9's either didn't accelerate any slower or actually faster if you backed off the throttle just a little bit...

AD

it was especially true for my (2.9l) truck that had all the turd polish parts that jayme wants so bad.only needed the 58mm TB a couple hundred rpm's before it was bouncing off the limiter

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Perhaps by the time you finish school, you'll learn to listen to the advice you ask for.

I didn't ask for everyone on TRS to repeatedly tell me a 4.0 swap is better than upgrading a 2.9. if thats you opinion you share that with a number of other members and thats fine, but it doesn't mean it has to be mine. Its been said over and over again, and im not ready to try that swap, as its my DD til schools done, and by then ill get a new DD and make my Ranger a project. At that point gas milage and power increases are not my goal. all I asked is what are some upgrades i can do to my 2.9 to increase power and/or gas milage.

:




I suggest if you want your truck to go faster then sell it and buy another one with a bigger engine!

Plus, for the trucks sake, don't pull the engine. It's happy where it is and doesn't need someone to kill it. You would need to do tons more research before you were even close to being ready for a job like that and with what I've seen you have a lot of learning to do!

Don't be offended, I wouldn't attempt it either nor would I feel able to.

As much as I like the 2.9 for its dependability and apperantly impressive strength, when i can afford to park it and make it a project It will no longer have that 2.9.

the first thing to do with a 2.9, the VERY FIRST thing is under no conditions actually push the throttle all the way open.

The 2.9 can't actually use all the throttle it has but the signal to the computer
that the throttle is at 100% puts the computer into "open loop" and your mileage goes (literally) to-shit.

Some people (like myself) noticed that some 2.9's either didn't accelerate
any slower or actually faster if you backed off the throttle just a little bit...

Gears:
Believe me I've seen many 2.9s get better mileage with 3.73's swapped in
to replace 3.45's and a further increase with NO OTHER CHANGES by going
to 4.10's, depending on tire size.

The reason for this is that the throttle position has more of an effect
on your mileage than engine rpm.
It's about "load" with the greater numerical gears you can run with
less throttle at a higher rpm and suprising some people who don't
think it through, get better mileage.

That's the truth.

If you don't understand it I'm sorry

But this is it.

Let the engine spin at light load and don't work your throttle like a total idiot and you can get good mileage.

AD

Alright, I can certainly accept that and i for sure understand where your coming from. I didn't want to tear apart my diff but if Putting new gears in is the only realistic upgrade thats fine. I also drive it 99% city so highway milage losses, if any, will not affect me much. I just dont understand how letting an engine rev higher will improve economy. Better question is where would i find 3.73's for a 7.5?
(and Unfortunately am a little lead footed, but Im tryin to tame that beast )

 

[jaymegriffiths]

only needed the 58mm TB a couple hundred rpm's before it was bouncing off the limiter

wanna explain that?

 

[edkin75]

Try a '86 or '87 throttle body on your motor, they are bigger than the 88's, try a tfi blaster coil by msd, prodused a hotter spark but who nows if it actually helped, I have stock exhaust gutted the cat and put a thrush glass pack on it, 8mm spark plug wires, go a step futher and put an accel cap and rotor, I can spin first and cherp second with this set up

and try bigger injectors you can tell the differace in bigger injectors,

If I repeated anything sorry I read the first 5 pages and got tired of reading,
Kenny

 

[holyford86]

It is a Speed Density, there are some '90 MAF 2.9's from Cali, and you could swap in a MAF if one were so inclined.

I did the MAF swap on a completely stock engine, (I have future plans ) and I figured it wouldn't hurt. it idles smoother and it is much easier to use the power down low with a MAF setup. it felt like it may have picked up MAYBE 1 or 2 horsepower but it could all be in my head. In my young and stupid years I tried for more power but the pod filters, the bigger TB, advancing the timing, gutting the cats, they make the truck LESS fun to drive and don't give you any more power. Currently I am running the stock cali emissions maf, the small tb, stock injectors, and a full airbox, haven't gotten around to putting an ungutted set of cats back on it. It runs great and has plenty of power. These engines draw less than 250cfm at WOT (IIRC), bigger injectors will eat more fuel, and foul your spark plugs and oil, its a worthless mod on a stock engine. The effect of ram air only becomes noticeable at speeds much higher than a 2.9 powered truck should ever go.

Just because you don't like the advice that these people give you doesnt mean that they are wrong. I asked the same questions when I was young and stupid, I got the same answers from some of the same people. Take the advice and learn from it instead of trying to get an answer you want to hear.

 

[rickcdewitt]

wanna explain that?

These engines draw less than 250cfm at WOT (IIRC).

just like allen said,they have too much throttle anyway and you get more torque at any given time by backing off the gas a hair.theres a reason why ford put SMALLER throttle bodies on mid production run

i could stomp it all the way and hear it bogg until right before redline = completely worthless.

the 2.9l is already jacked up,go much further and it needs to be in a car.and once you start doing bolt ons, etc with it you can mess up the fuel enrichment and need a 300$ chip too. i was stupid once bought close to 2000$ in 2.9l goodies only to loose bottom end and gain the tiny bit you're looking for without it being even worth it.sold it all and a smoking low compression 4.0l gets way more power and better mileage.

 

[AllanD]

The other factor and reason to avoid 100% throttle is that the TPS tells the
computer that you are at WOT and it takes the management system out of
"closed loop"

In "open loop" the management richens the mixture and the simple truth
about fuel:air mixtures is that ANYTHING other than the "ideal" is simply
"wrong" for best power.

as for Gears, nobody was telling you to tear into a rear axle.

Frankly I wouldn't trust most professional mechanics to set up a rear axle.
Why? because they simply don't know what they are doing.

You wouldn't have your family doctor do brain surgery either.
Rear axle work like INTERNAL transmission work is the perview
of the specialist.

Let me put it this way, my brother is a senior master Ford dealer technician.
But when he wanted the axle built in his truck he called me.
when a mutual friend went to him to have an axle regeared my brother told the friend, take it to Al, that's what he does, it's all he does, he never stops!
(you needed to be there for the "Terminator inspired humor")

with many things if you get it a little wrong you take it back to the shop
and adjust it.
You don't get that chancce with an axle, if you do it a little "wrong"
you often can't find all the pieces of the wreckage.

But there is a cheap and dirty way...

Find another axle that has the gears you want and swap it in.

AD

 

[jaymegriffiths]

The other factor and reason to avoid 100% throttle is that the TPS tells the
computer that you are at WOT and it takes the management system out of
"closed loop"

In "open loop" the management richens the mixture and the simple truth
about fuel:air mixtures is that ANYTHING other than the "ideal" is simply
"wrong" for best power.

as for Gears, nobody was telling you to tear into a rear axle.

Frankly I wouldn't trust most professional mechanics to set up a rear axle.
Why? because they simply don't know what they are doing.

You wouldn't have your family doctor do brain surgery either.
Rear axle work like INTERNAL transmission work is the perview
of the specialist.

Let me put it this way, my brother is a senior master Ford dealer technician.
But when he wanted the axle built in his truck he called me.
when a mutual friend went to him to have an axle regeared my brother told the friend, take it to Al, that's what he does, it's all he does, he never stops!
(you needed to be there for the "Terminator inspired humor")

with many things if you get it a little wrong you take it back to the shop
and adjust it.
You don't get that chancce with an axle, if you do it a little "wrong"
you often can't find all the pieces of the wreckage.

But there is a cheap and dirty way...

Find another axle that has the gears you want and swap it in.

AD

Thx for the advice. I may shop around and try to find some gears, and i see what you all meant. I read the kunz korner in the tech library and although it give a ton of upgrades to throw at the 2.9 the numbers just keep stacking up towards and engine swap being better in every way. for now ill just throw a cherry bomb on there and pretend its fast til i can afford another DD and take them time to do the swap right. SORRY ABOUT ALL THE USELESS PAGES LOL

 

[AllanD]

Pat Kuntz was tireless in trying to make the 2.9 "better"
but if you look dispassionatly at what a stock 2.9 already does
it's pretty special already it's almost exactly half the displacement
of a 351 Lightning engine and coincidentially makes exactly half
the 351's torque 800rpm lower than the 351 does.

It also makes half the 351's power, again at a lower rpm.

It's doing a damned fine job for an all cast iron pushrod engine
So, there is really little room for major improvement without really
screwing it up in the attempt.

And frankly what can be improved short of forced induction
(turbo, Blower or nitrous) will make it less "happy" doing truck work,
and in no case will turn it into an engine as good as it's purpose
designed replacement.

then you compare it to a 4.0 and people always look at the HP
and comment "But it's only 20hp more for an extra 1.1liters?"
Yeah, it's a 38%increase in displacement for that 14% gain in power
but you also get that power at a lower rpm AND 32% more torque
and THAT comes at a lower rpm as well.

Looking at the numbers doesn't tell you the story, DRIVING a 4.0
where a 2.9 has been is simply amazing.

Let me also point out if you REALLY want to do engine mods
all the mods that "sorta kinda" work on a 2.9 probably work
a whole bunch better on a 4.0, let me also point out that a 4.0OHV
making the same power relative to it's displacement would
be making 193hp and 235ft/lb of torque...

That give you any ideas?

Useless pages? Some people need to learn.

Others have an urge to teach.

AD

 

[jaymegriffiths]

Pat Kuntz was tireless in trying to make the 2.9 "better"
but if you look dispassionatly at what a stock 2.9 already does
it's pretty special already it's almost exactly half the displacement
of a 351 Lightning engine and coincidentially makes exactly half
the 351's torque 800rpm lower than the 351 does.

It also makes half the 351's power, again at a lower rpm.

It's doing a damned fine job for an all cast iron pushrod engine
So, there is really little room for major improvement without really
screwing it up in the attempt.

And frankly what can be improved short of forced induction
(turbo, Blower or nitrous) will make it less "happy" doing truck work,
and in no case will turn it into an engine as good as it's purpose
designed replacement.

then you compare it to a 4.0 and people always look at the HP
and comment "But it's only 20hp more for an extra 1.1liters?"
Yeah, it's a 38%increase in displacement for that 14% gain in power
but you also get that power at a lower rpm AND 32% more torque
and THAT comes at a lower rpm as well.

Looking at the numbers doesn't tell you the story, DRIVING a 4.0
where a 2.9 has been is simply amazing.

Let me also point out if you REALLY want to do engine mods
all the mods that "sorta kinda" work on a 2.9 probably work
a whole bunch better on a 4.0, let me also point out that a 4.0OHV
making the same power relative to it's displacement would
be making 193hp and 235ft/lb of torque...

That give you any ideas?

Useless pages? Some people need to learn.

Others have an urge to teach.

AD

well I realize argueing gets me nowhere here and I'm confident I'm capable of this swap. After thinking about it lots I figure, if ford thought the 4.0 is good enough to use for 18 years its gotta be better designed than the 2.9. I've been impressed by my truck too many times to give it up without any defence but I'm willing to shut my mouth long enough for what EVERYONE is saying. haha Maybe I'll watch the SGI (insurance lot for total loss vehicles) and see if i can get a decent 4.0. I seriously considered buyin up a 06 b4000 4.0 4x4 it was 600 bucks. but i wasn't ready for a 4x4 swap and the very extravagant wiring and electronics system was more than I wanted. Hopefully I'll get a sploder 4.0 for dirt cheap. Then I'll be on here I'm sure searchin for answers and hopefully I'll be able to ask you about it because I know you've done it before. Assuming theres no bad blood, but Im sure we can cut our (obvious) diferences and I'd love to have a kowledgeable friend to help! thanks!


*edit By useless pages i was referring to the comment made about reading 5 pages of my thread and skipping to the end...

 

[AllanD]

But Ford did not make the 4.0 for "18 years"

They made it for eleven and started phasing it out after only 8.

The 4.0 was introduced in 1990 and gone at the end of 2001.

the 4.0SOHC which is a further developement of the 4.0OHV
is a VERY different engine

I would NOT recommend even thinking about the 4.0SOHC swap
where a 2.9 has been

a 1990-92 4.0 would be easiest
a 1993 Explorer ideal but slightly more complicated
and a 1994 Explorer adds a couple of unreliable components
(EGR, The EGR sensor and a camshaft synchronizer)

Frankly wiht all the problems with the synchronizer on the 4.0OHV
I wouldn't use an engine with one.

I used a 1993 Explorer engine for my swap because it was the first year
with an active data link, used an engine bay layout like a Gen2 ranger
and was the LAST year without either EGR or a synchronizer.

But using an explorer harness added more distractions (a price I was willing to pay)
that some might find confusing...

On a gen1 Ranger it's a nasty job no matter how you approach it
(Voice of personal experience here)
on a gen2 IF you aquire a 1990-92 Ranger harness it's literally an
extra hour over swapping out a 2.9 for another 2.9.

Then again for people who haven't pulled ~250engines in their
lifetime it might be a bit more daunting.

The thing is we don't know you don't know your capability
so you might be right when you say "It's too much for me"

Truth be told for some people hangine a set of fuzzy dice from
their rearview mirror is too complicated for them.

I'll tell you this though... you won't know until you try.

I've personally made ONE 4.0 swap into a Gen1.
My truck, but I researched it so carefully
and knowing the truck better than just about anyone
everything went pretty smoothly, though I tend to engage in
"turd polishing" on many mechanical details...
Like I'll usually let no threaded hole into aluminum go
without adding a helicoil to the hole....
Ditto for the holes into cast iron that exhaust components connect with...

What really complicated my swap was retrofitting dual tanks into the
truck AND converting it to 4wd... AND replacing every inch of brake hydraulic
line on the truck with stainless steel...

AD

AD

 

[Hahnsb2]

Allan is right, you wont know till you try.

I kinda dove in flying by the seat of my pants, it turned out that the wiring wasn't so bad, only a handful of splices.

I used a 94 because that's what I got a good deal on and if I could do it over I would have used a 93 or older, the EGR system is just a PITA but oh well.

Having a complete donor vehicle really pays off too, I'm glad I had one.

 

[jaymegriffiths]

I would have used a 93 or older, the EGR system is just a PITA but oh well.

Having a complete donor vehicle really pays off too, I'm glad I had one.

note taken with the whole donor thing and i imagine my 4.0 will be one from a sploder as they are plentiful and cheap. maybe I'll look for one with a sunroof, kill 2 birds with one stone. quick question, can sploder doors be modded to fit rangers? I need power locks/windows. Seriously. Been J/Y hunting for like a year now.

 

[AllanD]

you can take the popup sunroof from an explorer but the slider they put in some 1994's cannot be retrofitted.

AD

 

[jaymegriffiths]

you can take the popup sunroof from an explorer but the slider they put in some 1994's cannot be retrofitted.

AD

HAHA after constant bickering about how a 4.0 blows a 2.9 out of the water, i chose to go 5.0 anyways. sorry to kill ya'lls hope or w/e cause you seemed pretty concerned that i do a 4.0 not a 2.9 beef up or 5.0. LOL