Over 200hp from 2.8l Ford V6 Article found

[Mummert]

Thanks to Jim C. for taking the time to find this article.

 

[Mummert]

This article is pretty good. 40 years later we have a few more options available to us.

I would not grind .010" off the cam bearing journals. We have had situations where we had .001" ground off of cam journals.

I think some of the newer aluminum cam gears have a thicker castings than the ones from 40 years ago.

Obviously some important information was left out , cam specs, head flow numbers (in the early 80's flowbenches werent real common).

Between the 2.8 and the 2.9 this team one its class in the Baja 1000 4 years in a row 84' 85' 86' and 87'. They had some things figure out.

What do you guys think?

 

[JoshT]

Almost 12:1 CR? Yikes! No wonder they were able to double the HP, they dang near doubled the compression.

Look for "How to Build and Modify Ford 60 Degrees V-6 Engines" by Sven Pruitt. IMO a bit more thorough coverage of what can be done to these. Stuff that could actually be done relatively easily by the average person.

 

[2011Supercab]

Look for "How to Build and Modify Ford 60 Degrees V-6 Engines" by Sven Pruitt.

We have a copy here

https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/pdf_documents/How-to-build-and-modify-Ford-V6-engines.PDF

 

[JoshT]

Not surprised. I've had a good copy, broken down by chapter, saved for many, many years ('09 at least). So haven't needed to locate a copy on years, I wasn't taking the time to look for one last night.

 

[Mummert]

Almost 12:1 CR? Yikes! No wonder they were able to double the HP, they dang near doubled the compression.

Look for "How to Build and Modify Ford 60 Degrees V-6 Engines" by Sven Pruitt. IMO a bit more thorough coverage of what can be done to these. Stuff that could actually be done relatively easily by the average person.

Really, ? Race engines are usually 14.0:1 - 16.0:1 compression. In the days of 10.0:1+,, turbocharged engines from the factory. I thought they were super conservative, but it made sense for the Baja 1000 race.

I thought the V6 book was okay.

 

[JoshT]

Really, ? Race engines are usually 14.0:1 - 16.0:1 compression. In the days of 10.0:1+,, turbocharged engines from the factory. I thought they were super conservative, but it made sense for the Baja 1000 race.

I thought the V6 book was okay.

Sure race engines did, but the stock 2.8L was far from a race engine. They were more like 8.5:1 CR stock. While 12:1 isn't really a doubling, that 3.5 point increase and that can make a big difference in power if the supporting changes are made. Ignition timing was probably increased a fair bit, and I'm sure that it was also on run on race gas (probably leaded back then) to support that increased compression and timing without causing detonation. These factors combine to pull a lot more power out of the other alterations that they did to the engine.

 

[Mummert]

Anytime you increase pressure the "theoretical maximum" you'll see is the square root of the increase. The real world increases are only 60 -70% of the square root.
Race engines usually run more idle timing than stock, but less full throttle timing. Better VE and higher compression create better burn efficiency demanding less spark lead for optimum performance.

 

[James C.]

Just for reference, the 11.7 to 1 figure is more than what any of the factory supported Ford Capri group 2 racers that ran between 1970 and 1973, the years they used the Cologne based engine. All sources I've seen show between 10.5 - 11.3 to 1. Of course, those cologne engined cars were using aluminum racing heads from Weslake, not regular production iron heads.

What I always wondered about was people that claimed 7000, 7200, (fill in the blank) in their street racer, when the factory team had to homologate a new forged crank w/revised counterweights to stop all the engines failures. I spoke to a east coast racer who campaigned a 2800 Capri in GT2 SCCA. He said he had one that would easily spin to 7000. He also had one blow up on the test stand, on it's way to 7000. His last one never ran at that limit. He did not have a "special" crank. If there's a secret to cologne rpm nirvana, I sure don't know.

 

[Mummert]

This is my experience having built hi performance engines for 30 years, so take its for what its worth.
7000 rpm is pretty doable for many stock crankshafts, Bracket drag racing well prepped cast crank with nice radius work and balancing will go about 300 passes before crack start showing up. Drag racing is the easiest because the stress is one way. In road racing or roundy round, cast cranks dont fair as well, decelerating can be much harder on part because once you chop the throttle and compression disappears the rotating assembly load doubles. Most engine blow when you get out of the throttle at the end of the run.
Connecting rods are a whole different story, I'm a Ford guy keep in mind but, Ford connecting rods always seem to be lacking somewhere. Bolt size, beam strength, cap rigidity, broached instead of spot faced for the rod bolt head, etc. etc. . The 2.8 rod is no exception, they are decent and for a nice 6000rpm build I think they do fine. But if I was going to to spin the engine they would be the first thing to go.
I using 52mm journal Subaru H beams in mine just because they are pretty close dimensionally. Rod length is the same. I like the 2mm smaller rod journal and 1mm smaller wrist pin. 3/8 ARP 2000 rod bolt is over kill to boot.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Thanks for sharing. I always wondered how Manny got so much horsepower out of his engines. I'm disappointed that they didn't specify what the cam was reground to, but I guess they can't give all the engine specs to their competition.

Engle is still in business, but I only see mention of VW cams. I wonder if they would tell you what they use to grind those cams to?

 

[Mummert]

The cam specs are more than likely milder than you think. The article says the stock cam was reground. The lobe center will be very close to stock. 111 or 112 lobe center. After putting effort into the head, there no reason to lift the valves anymore than .450 lift. The short turn and guide boss have to be ported very well to be stable passed .400" lift.
If they are revving the engine to 7000 rpm it probably peaks around 6600-6700 rpm. With the valve area per cu/in being what it is the duration would be 236ish a .050"

234-238 @.050" .450" lift 111 Lobe center I'd bet is real close.

 

[2011Supercab]

From an old catalog

 

[Mummert]

It would be interesting to know the year of this catalog. I don't think the "EP" series lobes came out until the 90's but I could be wrong.
They would of had older lobes of similar sizes

 

[2011Supercab]

It would be interesting to know the year of this catalog.

Appears to be 2010

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