COLD!

[Bill]

As to the first part of your quote, you know Germany’s solar panels have been covered in snow and there has been no appreciable wind in 6 days right?? They are relying on Russia’s gas/oil because they have no power. It’s bad enough Germany’s has announced a “rethinking” of how many or if they are going to close any more coal fired power plants.
All of Europe seems to be in a deep freeze with more snow than usual and many are questioning why they went to an extremely more expensive and unreliable system.
Apparently unicorn farts and rainbows won’t power the grid....

No! First, regarding snow on solar panels, the panels absorb a lot of heat from the sun and they are slick and tilted toward the sun. That's better than a 50 degree tilt in that part of Europe. So, the snow tends to slide off of them. The other part of this is the loss of solar power generation in winter isn't a major issue because electricity demand if lowest during the winter. In regards to the wind turbines, they were built to operate in cold weather. It would simply be pointless to build them if they couldn't operate in cold weather. So, I immediately figured your post was the result of bad information or propaganda from the anti-renewable energy mentality that is so prevalent in the United States and looked it up. Here's some information about the disinformation you acquired.

German solar, wind power did not fail in cold weather

Posts shared more than 200,000 times on Facebook in February 2021 allege that Germany’s renewable energy supply failed after snow covered solar panels and wind turbines froze. This is false; figures show that the country’s electricity production from these sources experienced no significant...

factcheck.afp.com

 

[Bill]

Solar and wind can be a viable supplement, if used sensibly and correctly but it will NOT replace coal, gas, and nuclear any time in the near future. From what I understand, wind is very maintenance intensive. Solar panels and mirrors need to be kept clean all the time for best efficiency and average about a 20 year operational life and require a huge foot print. I don't know the life span on wind turbines. Traditional systems have about 40 years.

The utility I use uses natural gas to generate about 27% of electricity. Nuclear accounts for less than 1%. The rest is renewable and hydroelectric. Solar is actually a larger factor than it appears because it only includes the extra electricity fed back into the grid from solar panels owned by utility customers. So, solar is somewhat higher than they state. So, over here natural gas and nuclear is supplementing other forms of power generation. Solar generation will likely skyrocket in the coming years. Big box stores are starting to install solar panels over their parking lots. Walmart and Costco appear to be leading the way. Costco plans to do this extensively in California, Arizona, and Texas. The footprint of parking lots and roof space is more than enough to cover the electricity needed by these stores and allows them to sell the excess electricity generated to the local or regional utility.

Here's a report on solar parking lot panels at one Costco location:

https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1208&context=cmsp

 

[Jim Oaks]

Everything fails when the demand gets too high. It's a domino thing..... would keeping wind online have prevented it? Dunno. Probably not, we don't get all that much from wind. But it would have eased the load on the grid and cut down on the blackouts.

There's no way we were demanding more electricity during this snow storm than we were in the summer when it was 105 degrees out.

 

[G8orFord]

I think I know who the Facebook fact checker is?

 

[MikeG]

Strongly suspect that the power generation plants down here count on winter as 'down time' to do maintenance, and also deliberately shut parts of the plants down since demand is expected to be lower. After all no reason to run the boilers / turbines full time without demand, right?

To say that they got caught with their pants down and unprepared is overstating the obvious.

Somewhere, all the information about power draw / KW hrs is out there.

Jim, I wouldn't think that the power draw in the winter would be what it is in the summer, either, but running a heat pump 24/7 if that's all you have, I'd expect that to draw the same whether it's trying to extract heat, or cool the house. So..... just speculation on my part, power draw may have been higher than we'd think. Perhaps there's an EE on the board who would know for sure.

 

[MikeG]

Oh, any anyone who got gouged by a service provider - I'd go to the trouble of filing reports with the state AG, and your local county attorney, and whatever licensing bodies that are appropriate. Might not do much good but at least there's a trail for people to look up to find out if someone is a scumbag, in the future. Leave an on-line review everywhere you can.

 

[19Walt93]

That's easier said than done. If I had a choice I wouldn't buy anything from China.

I try hard not to buy anything Chinese. I bought an Edelbrock carb spacer for my Ranger, it was Chinese and I had to grind on it before it would fit. I bought a new Duraspark distributor from Napa that was made by Cardone after researching Cardone to be sure it was an American company. The company's American, the distributor's from China. I think the country of origin should be listed where the potential buyer can see it, I'd pay more for a domestic part. I also found out Weiand intake manifolds are made in China now. I'm sure part of it is because of cost- lower pay, no OSHA, no unions, etc- but a big part is the lack of environmental regulations that reduce manufacturing costs. If you buy a Chinese item, you're voting with your money for no work place safety regs, no employee rights, no EPA, and no OSHA. Clean, safe manufacturing should be a selling point.

 

[pjtoledo]

There's no way we were demanding more electricity during this snow storm than we were in the summer when it was 105 degrees out.

meanwhile back in northern Ohio,,,

I just checked my electric bill. July was the highest followed by August then September.

peak demand during severe winter storms is usually very close to summer heat waves.

 

[don4331]

There's no way we were demanding more electricity during this snow storm than we were in the summer when it was 105 degrees out.

This is an over simplification, but it is correct at a macro level.

When it is 105* F out and you want to cool your house to 75*F, your heat pump needs to cool the air 30*F.

When it is 40*F, and you want to heat your house to 70*F, your heat pump needs to heat the air 30*F. Should it drop to 10*F outside, and you want your house 70*F, your heat pump needs to heat the air 60*F! Double the load.

It's actually worse:​

• When you are cooling in summer, the air is humid, so the heat pump can efficiently remove moisture and you feel cooler as your body can perspire and cool itself. The dry winter air must be heated much higher or it still feels cold.
• Heat pumps are designed for cooling, not heating. So like your Ranger efficiently goes forward, it doesn't go as good in reverse.

There is also supplemental load as everyone uses space heaters, blow dryers, etc to stay warm.

In Saskatchewan, when I worked for the power corporation, the load was highest in severe polar vortexes - as a result, the steel mill in Regina had to shutdown its electric arc furnaces when temp hit a certain point, and other industries with high electrical usage had to follow as temperature dropped.

I truly feel for the residents of Texas - in a lot of cases, they didn't know what to do/what was going to happen.

I worked my company's plant in Dallas area - to get kerosene into the generator tank, so they had some power, to turn off the water and use the compressed air in plant to drain the lines.​

 

[Dirtman]

Heaters are nothing but fans, how does that compare electrical usage wise to an AC unit which has a large compressor to spin? My gas bill is more in winter but electric drops significantly even when its 10 degrees out.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Heaters are nothing but fans, how does that compare electrical usage wise to an AC unit which has a large compressor to spin? My gas bill is more in winter but electric drops significantly even when its 10 degrees out.

I'd say that heaters are more than just fans. Isn't there significant electricity usage from the heating coils?
Edit; you're talking forced air...sorry.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Heaters are nothing but fans, how does that compare electrical usage wise to an AC unit which has a large compressor to spin? My gas bill is more in winter but electric drops significantly even when its 10 degrees out.

Yeah, power bill drops for me in the winter. Gas bill can get ugly though...

My central air is far from modern but it has to run a lot more than the heater to keep up... unless it is really freaking cold (see last week) with wind. The same fan is running for both seasons.

100* days are more common than -20* days too.

For supplimental stuff yes we also run a space heater a little in our bedroom. The window unit runs a lot more in the summer. We don't have ductwork upstairs. I am a polar bear, I like it cold year around. We hardly ran the space heater until we started sharing the room with a little kid.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I'm not well versed in heat pumps but aren't they just another function of an existing A/C system?

 

[Dirtman]

That's what I always understood, just an A/C unit turned around backwards so the cold air blows out and hot air blows in.

Dunno, we don't have them up here because they don't function in "real" cold weather.

 

[don4331]

I'm not well versed in heat pumps but aren't they just another function of an existing A/C system?

That's exactly what they are.

And that's what most of my colleagues in Alabama and Texas have for their heat in winter. And they work OK when it is only down to 40F at night and back up into the 60s during the day. But as Dirtman says they don't work very well in "real" cold weather, which is what they had last week. And as a result, the "A/C" system is running more than it would during 105*F.