Buying American and a thought experiment

[Eddo Rogue]

If you truly want American Made... you should probably get use to paying up.

I believe the price would come down as volume goes up... but it won't/can't be like flipping a switch. It will take time for American Made products to become the norm... or you can just keep buying the worlds junk and be prepared to throw it away and buy more junk.

I think this would be a good time mention Ol' Henry's assembly line, which made cars affordable to begin with....
Maybe bring that back, but we would have to figure out a way toe pay the guy putting on the left rear tire a decent wage...Like in the 70's, when the left rear tire installer at the Ford plant could support his entire middle class family comfortably with that wage, and have time to take them on vacation in the station wagon.

I think its FHA lending that has made houses affordable as well....Sometimes (rarely) the gov't actually is helpful...Trumps alright I guess, but we need another Roosevelt(s).

 

[Eddo Rogue]

I don't think the higher cost of labor in the US and Canada should be blamed on greed, everyone wants to earn a good living. Included in manufacturing costs are expenses for pensions, sick pay, social security( employer has to match the employee contribution), liability insurance, workman's comp, compliance with EPA and OSHA regulations, and whatever benefits the employees get that I failed to mention. I used to but cars and parts at dealer cost and labor at a discount, for example. When we buy Chinese stuff we're voting with our dollars for unsafe working conditions and industrial pollution. In the mid teens, we had a recall on Mexican built door latches in several models. I started working in garages in 1972 and had never seen a door latch fail before. The Takata air bags that have been killing people at least since the first documented case in Hondas in 2001 are another example of "superior quality" foreign products. During my career-both as a mechanic and as a service manager- I always tried to do the best job I could and I think that's true of most people. The lazy, greedy, sloppy American worker is a stereotype with no basis in fact, it's just fashionable to bash America and Americans while giving foreigners and their products a pass.

This kid of supports my arguement as well...If wages/cost of living were more balanced, we wouldnt need things like unions.

Maybe if the govt really provided actual health care and education, we wouldnt have to dedicate so much of our own money and time these basic necessities. We clown on socialist nations that charge 40-50% in taxes but provide all sort of free services...I am taxed 30%, plus deductions out of my paycheck for health care, retirement, pension, union dues etc...By the the money reaches me, half of its gone, maybe even more! Suddenly a 50% tax to not have to pay anyways and still worry about this stuff (did I meet my health plan min hrs this quarter?)

Its funny how the "sheeples" of America are so willing to trade freedom for "security"...I would rather trade my tax money for more/better services

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If you truly want American Made... you should probably get use to paying up.

I believe the price would come down as volume goes up... but it won't/can't be like flipping a switch. It will take time for American Made products to become the norm... or you can just keep buying the worlds junk and be prepared to throw it away and buy more junk.

We have the manufacturing resources to easily make a US made vehicle.

Get the volume up, get an assembly line running, start getting better deals on parts, more automation, make more stuff in house... it’s a vicious circle that feeds itself and drives costs down.

The only reason those broncos cost as much as they do is they are being built the same way someone would in their garage with jack stands and Summit/Dennis Carpenter catalogs. With really nice paint and finish work. And of course probably a Chinese shell/Chinese repop parts.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

If you truly want American Made... you should probably get use to paying up.

I believe the price would come down as volume goes up... but it won't/can't be like flipping a switch. It will take time for American Made products to become the norm... or you can just keep buying the worlds junk and be prepared to throw it away and buy more junk.

I can buy a real EB for less then that....

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I can buy a real EB for less then that....

You can also easily spend that much on a real EB.

 

[sgtsandman]

It would certainly be note expensive to buy a purely made U.S. vehicle.

While wages are a part of the problem. Burdensome regulation and the weakening of the dollar are big contributors.

Look at what wages were in say the 1960s and what things like a vehicle cost then. Percentage wise, the wage/vehicle cost ratio might be similar, maybe but the weakening of the currency has inflated everything dramatically.

 

[91stranger]

I think this would be a good time mention Ol' Henry's assembly line, which made cars affordable to begin with....
Maybe bring that back, but we would have to figure out a way toe pay the guy putting on the left rear tire a decent wage...Like in the 70's, when the left rear tire installer at the Ford plant could support his entire middle class family comfortably with that wage, and have time to take them on vacation in the station wagon.

I think its FHA lending that has made houses affordable as well....Sometimes (rarely) the gov't actually is helpful...Trumps alright I guess, but we need another Roosevelt(s).

Have you ever been inside a plant that builds cars or car parts? I used to work at Honda and literally built the turbines inside a torque converter. My line was mostly automatic. Me and one other person ran the whole line including about a dozen robotic arms, a couple lathes, a couple welders, many conveyers and my line was about 100+ feet long with all the machines. And this was just for one little part inside of a torque converter. Could you imagine how big of an assembly line it would take to build a vehicle now a days? Back when henry ford was doing it the model t was so simple and plain that anyone with a crescent wrench and a screwdriver could literally take the whole thing apart and re-build it. Couldn't do that today.

Roxor's are made in Michigan and can be converted to be street legal. These things are extremely simple and have little turbo-diesels. Not sure of anything else that is made entirely in USA, i'm sure theres other things out there. These little Roxors are like an over priced baby jeep with a terrible turning radius and no ground clearance.... LITERALLY lol.

A 100% USA built truck will never happen.... The price of steel and the stamping alone would put the cost well above 100k.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Roxor's are made in Michigan and can be converted to be street legal. These things are extremely simple and have little turbo-diesels. Not sure of anything else that is made entirely in USA, i'm sure theres other things out there. These little Roxors are like an over priced baby jeep with a terrible turning radius and no ground clearance.... LITERALLY lol.

They can be as street legal as a John Deere Gator. AKA in some locales utility vehicles can be registered and driven on the street.

Not the same as a old CJ which is a full blown street legal vehicle.

A 100% USA built truck will never happen.... The price of steel and the stamping alone would put the cost well above 100k.

I wonder how much metal stamping is done out of the country? Is there shiploads of truck cabs and beds being imported? I kinda doubt it.

 

[Blmpkn]

This is another thing there really isn't a good.. Or any.. Solution to.

Buying American is a growing trend, and as trendy things go there's always a "tax" added on (think 240sx/drift car pricing). This is fine. It's the beauty of capitalism. You can charge whatever t.f you want for your goods and or services, chances are.. Even if it's a crack pipe price.. There's going to be someone with enough money that they don't care.. They'll pay it cause it says "made in usa".

The majority of people though, have real limited incomes. They also want maximum "bang for buck" on their purchases, so If someone can buy a 100 $ Chinese alternator that's going to last just about as long as the 400$ denso unit... Even half as long.. They've made out. It makes financial sense, and making financial sense is.. Obviously extremely important.

I do the same thing. Some stuff, I'll buy American. If it's not American it's at least "name brand".. Other stuff.. Is the cheapest Chinese variant I can find.

"good enough" IS a real thing.


** I realized denso is a jap company.. But you get the idea -_-

 

[91stranger]

Wow, I just googled it for funsies and it says Jeep Cherokee is the most American made vehicle with about 72% domestic parts..... The list doesn't even get to ford until number 13... Way to go ford, honda is more domestic than ford!

Jeep Cherokee remains the most American car of the year, according to Cars.com

As tariff threats on imported goods loom, Cars.com took a look at which automobiles are predominantly manufactured in the US. The Jeep Cherokee wins.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Dirtman]

I love America. America doesn't build the best stuff sometimes. Not talking chinese crap, but japan makes great stuff for example. Fords EcoBoost engines are Japanese. I agree im sick of chinese garbage but not every foreign country sucks so much and America is not just competing with cheap china crap. We are competing with GOOD other foreign crap. Japan, Canada, Germany, tons of countries are beating us in tech. We buy china cause its cheap but we also buy amazing other stuff from foreign countries.

 

[19Walt93]

Wow, I just googled it for funsies and it says Jeep Cherokee is the most American made vehicle with about 72% domestic parts..... The list doesn't even get to ford until number 13... Way to go ford, honda is more domestic than ford!

Jeep Cherokee remains the most American car of the year, according to Cars.com

As tariff threats on imported goods loom, Cars.com took a look at which automobiles are predominantly manufactured in the US. The Jeep Cherokee wins.

www.usatoday.com

Windsor Ontario is right across the bridge, I think stuff they produce should be counted as domestic, besides, the Canadians buy a lot of stuff from us.

 

[8thTon]

Windsor Ontario is right across the bridge, I think stuff they produce should be counted as domestic, besides, the Canadians buy a lot of stuff from us.

It's easier to administer the empire's northern territories if we let them think they're an independent nation...

 

[G8orFord]

Some of you probably remember people bashing Japanese imports in the 60's and 70's. I'm not talking about autos, but all the other junk that was coming in from Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong back then. Cheap junk that a lot of people bought. We had very little imported from China at that time, and quite honestly, what was, was pretty decent quality. The trend started then. The Chinese saw a market and lept on it, but you can't blame the cheap junk coming from China completely on the Chinese. The bean counters that chose to take advantage of the cheap labor to increase their corporate bottom line are as complicit as any Chinese worker. Historically, the Chinese are excellent craftsman and great problem solvers. They're also smart and take advantage of opportunities that come their way.

As for the cost of the "new" first gen Bronco's, when you consider the cost of a new F-150 reasonably equipped is approaching $50k, $95K for a vehicle with a total production number of around 200 per year is not that ridiculous. Especially considering it's a niche market where only big spenders are going to be buying anyway.

 

[Eddo Rogue]

This is another thing there really isn't a good.. Or any.. Solution to.

Buying American is a growing trend, and as trendy things go there's always a "tax" added on (think 240sx/drift car pricing). This is fine. It's the beauty of capitalism. You can charge whatever t.f you want for your goods and or services, chances are.. Even if it's a crack pipe price.. There's going to be someone with enough money that they don't care.. They'll pay it cause it says "made in usa".

The majority of people though, have real limited incomes. They also want maximum "bang for buck" on their purchases, so If someone can buy a 100 $ Chinese alternator that's going to last just about as long as the 400$ denso unit... Even half as long.. They've made out. It makes financial sense, and making financial sense is.. Obviously extremely important.

I do the same thing. Some stuff, I'll buy American. If it's not American it's at least "name brand".. Other stuff.. Is the cheapest Chinese variant I can find.

"good enough" IS a real thing.

** I realized denso is a jap company.. But you get the idea -_-

Things like tools and alternators, I will go top shelf/dollar. However stuff like cut off wheels for my angle grinder? Harbor Freight it is.