Am I getting had by alignment shop?

[bobbywalter]

@bobbywalter I am not trying to bust your balls or anything. Everyone here appreciates your expertise, I have certainly learned a lot from your posts over the years. I just think there is either something serious missing from the receipt that the shop replaced and we don't know about or they way overcharged him.

I don't think your busting balls. Maybe I am misinterpreting the bill .. if I am....then you are right. It's a 100 over or so...


We posted at the same time so maybe you missed my previous post.

An hour and 15 per side for bushings is fair....especially if they had to pop the knuckles.

Dana 28.....which he should not have can really suck.

 

[19Walt93]

If it was rusty it would take extra time but this seems like a lot extra. The guy who did my 93 was pleased that I'd had everything apart and cleaned all the rust off so he didn't have to fight with it. He checked the alignment, pulled out the right camber slug to see that it was a 2 degree piece, determined he wanted a 1 1/2 or 1 1/4- I forget which- stuck it in place and rotated it to get the caster split where he wanted, then set the toe. All in a little over an hour. In NH, if a customer is given a written estimate the shop is allowed to exceed it by a maximum of 10% unless the customer approves the additional charges. A verbal estimate may not be a legal contract but common courtesy says to call the customer if you're going to go over. It's less work to make the call than it is to find a new customer.

 

[bobbywalter]

Absolutely they should have called.

I would not blame him for refusing to pay more then 20 percent over because of that.

I am saying that what is on the invoice is justifiable, provided they cleared it with explanation with the op.

When I was doing these alot I had a tool and think I still do..like 400 back then...it was a bluepoint or maybe OTC or Lisle.......it either worked perfect....or ripped the crown off and you were dropping the knuckle...some aftermarket bushings are different and it won't work on them at all.


So..... Regardless the shop fawked up. Even if the op told them to do what they had to to get it done....you call over 20. Percent and pow wow.

 

[Robertmangrum.rm]

Don't think I agree with all of that Bobby

It's a shop that charges over $100/hour to do these jobs
It may take 20min to do Pitman arm on 20 vehicles, then number 21 takes two hours, you don't charge the customer "to go to school" on a pain in the butt part replacement, you learn from it, and education cost money

Same for bushing replacements and alignments, you make "good money" on the ones that are "easy", then you eat the hour or two on the ones that aren't, while you LEARN why they are not easy so you are better educated for the next time

Then the next time someone calls or comes in with similar vehicle you can estimate $200+ for alignment, not $125

I don't mind paying for someone's time and knowledge, I shouldn't have to pay for ongoing education

I agree. At my shop we do different stuff daily. Not alignments so I'm lost there. But interior work on RVs and motor coaches. If we estimate a price for labor and it takes us twice as long as normal because it was improperly installed first time or Jerry rigged into place. I have to chalk it up to R&D. Our shop time is 125 an hour and adds up quickly. As a electrical technician sometimes I have to research new or old part to understand. I never feel it's the customers job to pay for my education. But that's just my opinion. My boss may differ but he don't fill out the work orders. Our shop's first name is Integrity so I try my best to use it when writing up these orders. That being said if it's going to double or triple the quoted price. My first call is the customers to approve the repair. Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

[vagabond80]

so the jury seems a bit out on if I should have paid the off-road specialty shop, which has been there since this truck was new, to figure out how to align adjustable bushings. I should note, I've only got the 1.5-2" lift from skyjacker, and alignment was dead-on prior. with the dana 35, as I saw questioned.
I could upload some pictures later, but, while not new, my suspension/steering really is pretty clean. I've had half a dozen vehicles aligned without complaint, some old rangers(stock) and some lifted(toyotas) but never paid anything close to this. all that said, whats done is done and I'm not one to raise a scene anyway unless the return is really worth it.

I might be going back again regardless. The floaty sloppy dead spot in the center of my steering is more unnerving than I realized with the first low speed drive. I have to hold just slightly left most of the time, but then when I want to turn slightly left for a shallow curve I sort of sway it left then hold the steering wheel back slightly right. Do these trucks have a simple adjustment screw on the steering box to tighten? Didn't have this problem at all before the alignment, even after lifting. also, and this may have been there before without my noticing since I had smaller tires before, but my passenger side front tire sticks out from the body an inch further than the driver side. not even sure what to measure/inspect to approach that...

 

[Curious Hound]

so the jury seems a bit out on if I should have paid the off-road specialty shop, which has been there since this truck was new, to figure out how to align adjustable bushings. I should note, I've only got the 1.5-2" lift from skyjacker, and alignment was dead-on prior. with the dana 35, as I saw questioned.
I could upload some pictures later, but, while not new, my suspension/steering really is pretty clean. I've had half a dozen vehicles aligned without complaint, some old rangers(stock) and some lifted(toyotas) but never paid anything close to this. all that said, whats done is done and I'm not one to raise a scene anyway unless the return is really worth it.

I might be going back again regardless. The floaty sloppy dead spot in the center of my steering is more unnerving than I realized with the first low speed drive. I have to hold just slightly left most of the time, but then when I want to turn slightly left for a shallow curve I sort of sway it left then hold the steering wheel back slightly right. Do these trucks have a simple adjustment screw on the steering box to tighten? Didn't have this problem at all before the alignment, even after lifting. also, and this may have been there before without my noticing since I had smaller tires before, but my passenger side front tire sticks out from the body an inch further than the driver side. not even sure what to measure/inspect to approach that...

What your describing sounds like it could use just a little bit more caster adjustment. The caster setting has a lot to do with “return to center” and wandering issues.

One of my front wheels sticks out further than the other also. Doesn’t bother me. I think that is more of a lift kit issue.

 

[bobbywalter]

I just put a skyjacker lift in my 90 4x4, so I took it to the local off road shop to get alignment done. I brought them the adjustable camber bushings and drop pitman arm(I had loosened everything up but my cheap puller tool was bending, so I brought it in). They told me $125 flat for alignment, and said they didn't expect to need to use the bushings but if they did it would be extra and they would call me. Dropped it off first thing yesterday morning. Just got a call this afternoon that it's done, drives great except a little tire rub, total bill $527.50. I'm first ticked they didn't contact me, but still this seems much higher than reasonable, or am I underestimating the bushings swap?? Input appreciated, even if it's just to tell me I'm an idiot.

Thanks yall

They told me $125 flat for alignment, and said they didn't expect to need to use the bushings but if they did it would be extra

That is not r and d.....so it is understood by all as contingent.


regardless. They fawked up and should eat some cost due to this....

and they would call me.

The 125 For a toe set is the build in for win lose.

I'm first ticked they didn't contact me, but still this seems much higher than reasonable, or am I underestimating the bushings swap??

The bill is fair.....not calling was bullshit.

They could have at least gave him the option of installing the camber bushings....saving him the labor costs and them the risk.


But.

If we are being fair. As shran pointed out ...it's 2 bolts and 10 minutes for a pitman arm....(well . You know ..if your lucky)

If this guy could not do that on his own....why the fawk would he be able to pull off a bushing swap train wreck?


Again....it was understood there were contingent factors . And that unwritten assumption is one of them.

 

[bobbywalter]

so the jury seems a bit out on if I should have paid the off-road specialty shop, which has been there since this truck was new, to figure out how to align adjustable bushings. I should note, I've only got the 1.5-2" lift from skyjacker, and alignment was dead-on prior. with the dana 35, as I saw questioned.
I could upload some pictures later, but, while not new, my suspension/steering really is pretty clean. I've had half a dozen vehicles aligned without complaint, some old rangers(stock) and some lifted(toyotas) but never paid anything close to this. all that said, whats done is done and I'm not one to raise a scene anyway unless the return is really worth it.

I might be going back again regardless. The floaty sloppy dead spot in the center of my steering is more unnerving than I realized with the first low speed drive. I have to hold just slightly left most of the time, but then when I want to turn slightly left for a shallow curve I sort of sway it left then hold the steering wheel back slightly right. Do these trucks have a simple adjustment screw on the steering box to tighten? Didn't have this problem at all before the alignment, even after lifting. also, and this may have been there before without my noticing since I had smaller tires before, but my passenger side front tire sticks out from the body an inch further than the driver side. not even sure what to measure/inspect to approach that...

Jury is not out.


You did not pay for r and d...


But they fawked up by not calling.


They can eat a bit.

That on center dead spot is normal....unless tire wear is accelerated....

Depending on crown level of area roads.

 

[vagabond80]

What your describing sounds like it could use just a little bit more caster adjustment. The caster setting has a lot to do with “return to center” and wandering issues.

One of my front wheels sticks out further than the other also. Doesn’t bother me. I think that is more of a lift kit issue.

good to know, thanks

That is not r and d.....so it is understood by all as contingent.

regardless. They fawked up and should eat some cost due to this....

I think were mostly on the same page, the call and ask is the critical factor; not wanting to break down semantics, de jure, "extra" isn't 200% regardless

If we are being fair. As shran pointed out ...it's 2 bolts and 10 minutes for a pitman arm....(well . You know ..if your lucky)

If this guy could not do that on his own....why the fawk would he be able to pull off a bushing swap train wreck?

Again....it was understood there were contingent factors . And that unwritten assumption is one of them.

not sure if you're referring to me or the shop guy here, after the rest of the lift job I popped the nuts of the pitman but my chintzy puller tool was bending so, being on my way to a shop, I decided to have them do the final 5 minutes of the job.

 

[vagabond80]

Jury is not out.

... well, I'm saying that because in this thread there are people going both ways. in fact, most of the "jury" is leaning "overpaid"


the road crowns are not great here, hopefully its all normalish, but I dont want to find out with an escalated problem

 

[bobbywalter]

So am I. But because they didn't call.


Your post was clear.

Your invoice even more clear.


Contingency as stated in your post is fair. One hour and fifteen minutes per side for bushings on a truck you could not get the pitman arm off of is extremely fair.

If it was an easy job. You would have got it with your puller.

 

[Eddo Rogue]

It is kinda weird they didn't call you or bat an eye telling you the new total.

 

[Curious Hound]

Maybe they ran into a problem along the way, bent A arm or something for example. Anyways I'm sure they have a breakdown on the invoice. It is kinda weird they didn't call you or bat an eye telling you the new total.

The invoice is posted above. Plus. No A arm. This is TTB.

 

[Uncle Gump]

The biggest problem I see here.... they didn't ask for additional dollars when the bill was going to exceed their estimate. The choice to pay the price or not wasn't given to you.

I'm not going to get into was it a fair price thing... I wasn't there. I do know you can fight pretty hard at times to do these repairs... even in a well equipped shop.

 

[bobbywalter]

The time they billed is fair.


What is unfair.

Assuming there was only 5 min left because a chinsey puller was sweating ....that is patently unfair.

The easy part is taking the nuts off.

The hard part is unseating the pitman arm without fawking up the box, seal or sector shaft.

More importantly....taking care and time inspecting cleaning and preparing the shaft for the new pitman arm, making sure they are compatible....and properly seating the new pitman arm so it don't loosen and fawk things up later ...


This all applies to each side for the bushings.


Bottom line. They did not call.

This guy paying more then 20 to 25 percent over on labor tells me he is a stand up guy.

I would recognize this as the shop owner/manager and remedy it.