Wheel Seal Leaking Water

[85_Ranger4x4]

Kinda new to wheeling with water. My first time out (in Ohio) I got water in both hubs and really I don't think I was in that much of water for that long to do this. The weird muddy brown goo is only in the wheel bearing area so i suspect it was the seals on the rotors that leaked.

Any tricks to help this or just par for the course? I am wondering if a speedi sleeve would probably be the way to go...

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

Forgot to ask you this, but how much grease do you pack into your hubs?

 

[turbo91xlt]

Do you still have the hub to rotor O-rings seals?

 

[Uncle Gump]

The wheel seal appears to be doing it's job well... the spindle shows no sign of leakage.

My vote is for it coming through the hub...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Forgot to ask you this, but how much grease do you pack into your hubs?

I just pack the bearings and then some between, I wasn't real scientific about it.

I was quizing my dad about it and he said for 2wd feedlot tractors guys used to put a zerk on the hubcap and pump the hubs full. If they were full of grease there was no room for any other "liquid"... not really practical for this though.

The wheel seal appears to be doing it's job well... the spindle shows no sign of leakage.

My vote is for it coming through the hub...

Is it common for a leak at the hub to gravitate towards the inner bearing? The other side was worse but the inner bearing also had a lot more of the funny red colored mud/grease than the outer too. Bearing nuts/locknuts and the lockouts are spotless on both sides.

I used the best o-rings from my hub stash, they are round so figured they would be ok... I will probably try to get new o-rings now as a precaution.

 

[Shran]

This is the area your wheel seal rides on... I always clean that up really well, make sure the seal hasn't worn a groove in it and grease the lip of the seal. I'm betting this is where water came in... it looks a little rough.

The amount of grease will help too. I pack quite a bit in there. I'm sure there's an amount that's "too much" but "just about full" has always worked pretty well for me.

All that said, getting water in the bearings is just part of life if you're in the water. My buddy who mud races takes his front end apart after just about every race and the wheel bearings are full of mud and water every time, even with new seals and extra sealant in places plus rubber caps over the hubs. It just happens.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I just pack the bearings and then some between, I wasn't real scientific about it.

I was quizing my dad about it and he said for 2wd feedlot tractors guys used to put a zerk on the hubcap and pump the hubs full. If they were full of grease there was no room for any other "liquid"... not really practical for this though.



Is it common for a leak at the hub to gravitate towards the inner bearing? The other side was worse but the inner bearing also had a lot more of the funny red colored mud/grease than the outer too. Bearing nuts/locknuts and the lockouts are spotless on both sides.

Typically no... The warmer grease would be pulled to a cooler area. This is why packing the hub with grease is not such a good idea. The warm grease is pulled from the bearings by the cooler grease in the center of the hub.

One would think if the wheel seals were allowing water into the bearings... it would also leak grease onto the spindle. Yours look really clean.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

Maybe excessive, but I packed my hubs 100% full with grease before heading to the trail ride. when i pushed them to seat over the spindle, they oozed everywhere. Was kind of nice, they didnt fall off the wheel studs when i put the wheel back on.

Seemed to work really well. Bearings held up fine, and no water in my hubs when I pulled them when I got home.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

This is the area your wheel seal rides on... I always clean that up really well, make sure the seal hasn't worn a groove in it and grease the lip of the seal. I'm betting this is where water came in... it looks a little rough.

The amount of grease will help too. I pack quite a bit in there. I'm sure there's an amount that's "too much" but "just about full" has always worked pretty well for me.

All that said, getting water in the bearings is just part of life if you're in the water. My buddy who mud races takes his front end apart after just about every race and the wheel bearings are full of mud and water every time, even with new seals and extra sealant in places plus rubber caps over the hubs. It just happens.

View attachment 35505

That is kinda what I was thinking on the seal area, if a speedi sleeve would help. I emery clothed the seal area when I put all together. It holds grease fine which is kinda all I really intended for it to hold at first.

My peeve about this that it is a day+ drive to get anywhere fun and I don't really want to have to flush and pack wheel bearings in a parking lot somewhere before I go home. Rip the rotor off "yep it looks good" and reassemble would be much more preferable.

 

[Uncle Gump]

To fill... or not to fill...

This is another one of those topics that will be debated for eternity.

I was taught NOT to fill the hub... why? Thermal Dynamics. Everything travels from hot to cold. Hot grease in the bearing will wick to the cooler grease in the hub. I've never filled a hub and have done it this way since the late 70's. So... after 40 years. I'm stuck in my ways.

Would filling the hub on a purpose built mud truck prevent water intrusion... good chance it will. But... as a driver I honestly believe it will hurt things more then it will help. Also... if the hub from seal to cap is full... where does the grease expand to when the hubs get hot?

Most likely it will push out through the seal.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

That is what I was taught too, it never gets warm enough in the middle of the hub for the grease to flow anywhere so it just sits there.

 

[Shran]

I don't fill the lockout hub - in fact I take them apart and remove all the grease in the parts washer and lightly oil everything. Grease always kinda makes its way into them over time.

I usually put a couple big globs on the inner race, put the bearing in, install the seal, and then smear more grease in between the seal and inner bearing. Then I flip the rotor over, put a couple more globs on the outer race, put the outer bearing in, and then a couple more globs in the space between the bearings. Stick the rotor on, wipe off any excess that got smeared onto the axle shaft and spindle threads, and it's a done deal. There is probably a little air space in there somewhere but not a ton. I have yet to have a bearing failure that I can attribute to grease.

I imagine the type of grease is pretty important too - I know some guys that use the cheap black or gray stuff that will just about turn to liquid on a hot day. I usually use red or blue high temp but even then there's obvious quality differences between brands of that. One of my wheeling buddies uses some sort of green grease that is like sticky, thick snot and he swears by it...very high temp rated stuff but at $17/tube it's a little rich for my blood.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I have mulled trying John Deere Polyurea grease which is green good smellin' stuff... the stuff I used the last time was red Master Pro from o'reilly's. PJ is sending me some stuff that is supposed to be really good so I have to look forward to trying.

I can't really fault the grease any, with contamination it got me home (like 900 miles IIRC) and around for 4 months before it started making noise. I tore it apart as soon as it started making noise and my bearings are fine.

 

[4x4junkie]

I suspect a big part of what causes this issue is the sudden temperature change that usually occurs when a hot brake rotor & hub gets dunked into cold water... The vacuum formed within the internal air space from the cooling wants to suck water in past the seals. This is why it's important that your seals are all in good condition.

I have had that rust goo appear on mine before too. I came to the conclusion that the water had actually entered in through the axle shaft seal behind the spindle, then as the temperature cycled over time, the water eventually found it's way to the wheel bearings via condensation. Everything else being so covered in grease is likely why you don't see rust elsewhere.


As for packing the hub itself full, that stands a good chance of causing the hubs to not lock & unlock correctly because too much grease may prevent the clutch gear in the hub from being able to move freely.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

Certified Labs. You will not **** anything up if you use it.

I expose it to well fluids, mud, creeks, 30,000' winch pillow bushings, etc. Never fails. Never takes on water. High cadmium levels so similar to benefits of running molybdenum in engine oil, one last barrier for when SHTF.