Master cylinder ?

sbsrlewis · 02-07-2012, 05:21 AM

I'm hoping I can get some guidance on my brake. Here's a brief histor that since the issue started.

Last fall I bought and installed Dana 35 beams with Dana 44 Outers on my 89 BII. During the install I replaced the rotors, calipers and pads with new ones. After the install the brake pedal traveled further and didn't seem as strong. Not long after I swapped the drums on by 8.8 to disk. After this the braking got even worse so I changed the BII master cylinder out for one from an Explorer with 4 wheel disk and removed the RABS moduel and there has been no improvement.

I am using the original BII hard lines and bought the extended stainless braided lines from Duff. I also purchased a Motive Products power bleeder. I have bleed the brake numerous times but braking remains the same.

Do you think that a master cylinder from a 1/2 would fix this issue and get my brakes back? I would like to get this solved so I can start driving this again plus I have an off-road trip coming up that I won't be able to do without brakes.

Ideas?

Steve

infantry grunt · 02-07-2012, 08:52 AM

proportioner valve maybe,this happened on my wifes truck once,i was stummped,replaced everything i knew to.its like a junction where your brake lines go into and out of,should be mounted inside your frame rail.hpe this is useful

**kryptonitecb** · 02-07-2012, 10:25 AM

If you get a master cylinder from an explorer with 4 wheel disk and the proportionating built in it may solve your issue. I did that swap when I moved from drum to 4 wheel disk on my ranger. Also try adjusting the rod that goes from the booster to the master cylinder. After I replaced my master and extended that rod (which is a pita, you have to adjust, install, test, remove, adjust, etc) everything worked great. This was on a ranger with 8.8 rear and d35 ttb front so it may require some trial and error for you to make it work.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

**alwaysFlOoReD** · 02-07-2012, 10:46 AM

All I have is some thoughts, I don't have real world experience.

You replaced the rubber lines with ss braided so there shouldn't be any swelling of the lines going on.

You aren't losing fluid.

You have correctly bled the system.[?]

You have replaced the front calipers with new that have a larger piston displacement [larger volume]

You have replaced the rear drums with calipers that have a larger piston displacement [larger volume]

You are using a master with a small displacement piston [small volume].

Replace small volume master with larger

I think your idea of using a 1/2 ton master is valid. I do remember seeing a thread about this same problem and IIRC that was the solution. I would look for a master from a truck with brakes closest to what you have now. You may have to incorporate an adjustable proportioning valve.
Good luck,

Richard

**Sasquatch_Ryda** · 02-07-2012, 02:21 PM

Front calipers on are the correct sides and the bleeders are at the top of the caliper correct?

Loud Ranger · 02-07-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch_Ryda

Front calipers on are the correct sides and the bleeders are at the top of the caliper correct?

^Id double check this, When i installed my 8.8 discs i accidently swapped sides with the calipers since they were labeled wrong. Couldnt get much pressure at all since all the air was trapped in the top of the caliper and the bleeders were pointing down.

sbsrlewis · 02-09-2012, 05:08 AM

I will double check to make sure I have the calipers on the correct side but I think I will try and extend the rod before I replace the master cyl. Thanks for the ideas.

Steve

**kryptonitecb** · 02-10-2012, 12:44 PM

That rod is something that isn't discussed in the library and was all I had to do to make mine work right. The post I ran across had mentioned that the stock ranger rod length is less than that of the explorers by a couple hairs. I was at my wits end like you so I gave it a try and it worked perfectly. Hopefully it solves your issue also.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

sbsrlewis · 02-10-2012, 01:18 PM

I checked my nipples are up...or should I say the brake bleeders are in the up position.

As for adjusting the rod, which is my next step, does 1 full turn make a BIG difference? Curious as to how much I should turn it out?

Steve

scooter · 02-10-2012, 01:29 PM

I went bout three turns at a time, only put two nut on it while testing also.

I pretty well did the same thing you did untill i noticed the adjuster on
the MC.

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**kryptonitecb** · 02-10-2012, 02:44 PM

X2 to scooter, take off MC, adjust, install 2 nuts, test, repeat till good. Make sure not to extend to far or you will constantly engage the MC.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

scooter · 02-10-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

Make sure not to extend to far or you will constantly engage the MC.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

Um yeaaaaaa, i did that too.... Drove it around a bit (around the block), brakes were touchy.
Came back home and was like uhhh ohhhhh i smell HOT brakes!!!

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02-07-2012, 05:21 AM	#1
sbsrlewis Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma Year: 1989 Make: Ford Model: Bronco II Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: Play and daily driver Posts: 323 Rep Power: 12 iTrader: (1)	Master cylinder ? I'm hoping I can get some guidance on my brake. Here's a brief histor that since the issue started. Last fall I bought and installed Dana 35 beams with Dana 44 Outers on my 89 BII. During the install I replaced the rotors, calipers and pads with new ones. After the install the brake pedal traveled further and didn't seem as strong. Not long after I swapped the drums on by 8.8 to disk. After this the braking got even worse so I changed the BII master cylinder out for one from an Explorer with 4 wheel disk and removed the RABS moduel and there has been no improvement. I am using the original BII hard lines and bought the extended stainless braided lines from Duff. I also purchased a Motive Products power bleeder. I have bleed the brake numerous times but braking remains the same. Do you think that a master cylinder from a 1/2 would fix this issue and get my brakes back? I would like to get this solved so I can start driving this again plus I have an off-road trip coming up that I won't be able to do without brakes. Ideas? Steve __________________ 1989 BII, 4.0, Mazda 5-Speed, 1350/1354 Doubler, D-35 w/D-44 outers, 8.8 w/Yukon Ultimate 88 kit and disk brakes, 1" BL, JD Coil Buckets, 66-77 F150 Coils, JD HD Coil Seats, JD front quad shocks, JD Extended Radius Arms, Extended Braided Stainless Steel brake lines, Cut fenders, 33" Pro Comps, Line-X'd interior & rocker panels.
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02-07-2012, 08:52 AM	#2
infantry grunt Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: alabama Year: 1994 Make: mazda Model: b-3000 Engine: 3.0l Class: 4x4 Used For: everything Posts: 210 Rep Power: 9 iTrader: (1)	proportioner valve maybe,this happened on my wifes truck once,i was stummped,replaced everything i knew to.its like a junction where your brake lines go into and out of,should be mounted inside your frame rail.hpe this is useful __________________ 4 inch skyjacker,3 inch body,d35 and 99 explorer 8.8 with disc brakes,33x1250-15,4.56 gears,flat black paint(removed and/or painted over ALL reflectors, homemade,cannot and will not be detected at night, spare tire carrier(made from sway bar)mounts in the bed,back off or dim your lights rear monted fog lights w/toggle switch(lol),trimmed fenders,and saving up for 35's(finally)WOOHOO!!
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02-07-2012, 10:25 AM	#3
kryptonitecb Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Year: 1994 Make: Ford Model: Ranger Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: daily driver, trail ready Posts: 990 Rep Power: 8 iTrader: (1)	If you get a master cylinder from an explorer with 4 wheel disk and the proportionating built in it may solve your issue. I did that swap when I moved from drum to 4 wheel disk on my ranger. Also try adjusting the rod that goes from the booster to the master cylinder. After I replaced my master and extended that rod (which is a pita, you have to adjust, install, test, remove, adjust, etc) everything worked great. This was on a ranger with 8.8 rear and d35 ttb front so it may require some trial and error for you to make it work. Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
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02-07-2012, 10:46 AM	#4
alwaysFlOoReD Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: red deer canada Year: '91, '85, '97 Make: ford Model: ranger, b-II, f-150 Engine: 4.0,4.0,4.2 Class: 4x4 race, 4x4, 2wd work Used For: 4x4 race, 4x4,2wd work Posts: 3,139 Rep Power: 10 iTrader: (0)	All I have is some thoughts, I don't have real world experience. You replaced the rubber lines with ss braided so there shouldn't be any swelling of the lines going on. You aren't losing fluid. You have correctly bled the system.[?] You have replaced the front calipers with new that have a larger piston displacement [larger volume] You have replaced the rear drums with calipers that have a larger piston displacement [larger volume] You are using a master with a small displacement piston [small volume]. Replace small volume master with larger I think your idea of using a 1/2 ton master is valid. I do remember seeing a thread about this same problem and IIRC that was the solution. I would look for a master from a truck with brakes closest to what you have now. You may have to incorporate an adjustable proportioning valve. Good luck, Richard __________________ As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein Last edited by alwaysFlOoReD; 02-07-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: speling
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02-07-2012, 02:21 PM	#5
Sasquatch_Ryda Coast Mountain Crawlers Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Terrace, BC, Canada Year: 1991/1997/2008 Make: Ford Model: Ranger/Ranger/SuperDuty Engine: 4.0L/3.0L/6.4L Class: 4x4 Used For: Play toy/Daily Driver/Grocery Getter Posts: 7,469 Rep Power: 10 iTrader: (0)	Front calipers on are the correct sides and the bleeders are at the top of the caliper correct? __________________ http://www.coastmountaincrawlers.com 1991 Ranger - one tons, 3 link, air shocks and 40's 1997 Ranger - reg cab flare side, 3.0L, M5OD-R1, 4x4, 4.56 gears, 6" lift, 33" MT's. 2008 F350 - 6.4L Powerstoke Diesel, 35x12.50R18 Procomp Xtreem AT's on 18x9 Incubus Crushers, AFE DPF/DOC Delete pipe, H&S XRT Pro tuner, AFE Stage 2 intake 1967 Mustang Coupe - 289, c4, pretty much stock
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02-09-2012, 05:08 AM	#7
sbsrlewis Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma Year: 1989 Make: Ford Model: Bronco II Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: Play and daily driver Posts: 323 Rep Power: 12 iTrader: (1)	I will double check to make sure I have the calipers on the correct side but I think I will try and extend the rod before I replace the master cyl. Thanks for the ideas. Steve __________________ 1989 BII, 4.0, Mazda 5-Speed, 1350/1354 Doubler, D-35 w/D-44 outers, 8.8 w/Yukon Ultimate 88 kit and disk brakes, 1" BL, JD Coil Buckets, 66-77 F150 Coils, JD HD Coil Seats, JD front quad shocks, JD Extended Radius Arms, Extended Braided Stainless Steel brake lines, Cut fenders, 33" Pro Comps, Line-X'd interior & rocker panels.
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02-10-2012, 12:44 PM	#8
kryptonitecb Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Year: 1994 Make: Ford Model: Ranger Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: daily driver, trail ready Posts: 990 Rep Power: 8 iTrader: (1)	That rod is something that isn't discussed in the library and was all I had to do to make mine work right. The post I ran across had mentioned that the stock ranger rod length is less than that of the explorers by a couple hairs. I was at my wits end like you so I gave it a try and it worked perfectly. Hopefully it solves your issue also. Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
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02-10-2012, 01:18 PM	#9
sbsrlewis Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma Year: 1989 Make: Ford Model: Bronco II Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: Play and daily driver Posts: 323 Rep Power: 12 iTrader: (1)	I checked my nipples are up...or should I say the brake bleeders are in the up position. As for adjusting the rod, which is my next step, does 1 full turn make a BIG difference? Curious as to how much I should turn it out? Steve __________________ 1989 BII, 4.0, Mazda 5-Speed, 1350/1354 Doubler, D-35 w/D-44 outers, 8.8 w/Yukon Ultimate 88 kit and disk brakes, 1" BL, JD Coil Buckets, 66-77 F150 Coils, JD HD Coil Seats, JD front quad shocks, JD Extended Radius Arms, Extended Braided Stainless Steel brake lines, Cut fenders, 33" Pro Comps, Line-X'd interior & rocker panels.
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02-10-2012, 01:29 PM	#10
scooter October OTOTM Winner Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: N.W. Oklahoma Year: 1989 Make: Ford Model: Bronco II Engine: 5.0L Class: 4x4 Extreme Used For: FUN. Posts: 1,122 Rep Power: 27 iTrader: (0)	I went bout three turns at a time, only put two nut on it while testing also. I pretty well did the same thing you did untill i noticed the adjuster on the MC. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 1989 Bronco II, 5.0L H.O.,C-6 Transmission,203/205 doubler, Rockwells 4 wheel steer,44in Boggers, 3-link front, 1-link rear. Drunken Rock Brigade. OCT 2008 OTOTM Cardomain:http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2927642
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02-10-2012, 02:44 PM	#11
kryptonitecb Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Year: 1994 Make: Ford Model: Ranger Engine: 4.0 Class: 4x4 Used For: daily driver, trail ready Posts: 990 Rep Power: 8 iTrader: (1)	X2 to scooter, take off MC, adjust, install 2 nuts, test, repeat till good. Make sure not to extend to far or you will constantly engage the MC. Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
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