Ford, Built Without Your Tax Dollars

"Built Without Your Tax Dollars" Ford T-Shirt



What do you guys think?

When my flagship predates the bailouts by 25 years it kinda takes the punch out of it...

I'd wear it. I've seen some shirts and hats with that saying around at some car shows.

Ford did not take a bailout on the books. They sold millions of their stock and and dividends and paid off some of their debt. This did hurt the company a bit since Ford has been trying to expand overseas more and this cost a lot of money. Ford still owes a lot of money because of this. They are a great #2 company. But the sales have never grown as much as the Dodge company for instance has. Dodge has a continued 20% anual sales growth for the past several years in a row and Ford is only showing 7% grow the past 2 years in a row. I know all this because I read all the business sections, finanical magazines etc. since I have money in stocks that I bought in several companies back in the 80's. No Facebook stock.....lol

straycat said:

Ford did not take a bailout on the books. They sold millions of their stock and and dividends and paid off some of their debt. This did hurt the company a bit since Ford has been trying to expand overseas more and this cost a lot of money. Ford still owes a lot of money because of this. They are a great #2 company. But the sales have never grown as much as the Dodge company for instance has. Dodge has a continued 20% anual sales growth for the past several years in a row and Ford is only showing 7% grow the past 2 years in a row. I know all this because I read all the business sections, finanical magazines etc. since I have money in stocks that I bought in several companies back in the 80's. No Facebook stock.....lol

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Actually they took out loans on everything down to the blue oval. They dumped the non-effective breeds and starting having fewer models that competed with each other and vehicles that share more parts.

With Dodge starting with practically nothing after its bailout, it is very easy to improve on that. They are still nowhere close to bucking Ford from its sales position.

Actually, they didn't take out loans.
They took out lines of credit a few years before all the bailout crap.

Beware guys, Stray may have googled that information.

I did some research on this for a paper a few years ago.

One of Ford's biggest advantages is that they sold a LOT of stuff, took out some lines of credit, and started a scheduled retooling of all their factories, during which they took a bend towards being able to produce more efficient designs, right before the government started revamping fuel economy standards again.

GM and Chrysler were already loosing sales and in the middle of a retooling cycle that was not done with the same mind set and so were not in a position to meet the requirements equipment-wise, and were not in a financial position to fix that.

Something else that Dodge has going for them is that they are actually putting out much better cars than they were 10- 15 years ago. Case in point, the 1994 base model Intrepid that I owned (before it got totalled) had a bunch of fit and finish problems - interior plastic warping up, the door seals shrinking and coming off the door frame, doors/ hood/ fenders not all lined up; mechanical issues - a/c is garbage, every intrepid of this era has had the evaporator core go bad, many had transmission issues (I never had that other than a few quirks, car had 194k on it when it got smacked). The 2009 base model Charger (the intrepid's replacement in Dodge's lineup) that I have is much much better in fit and finish. every panel and door is lined up nicely, the car's interior has not warped (yet) and does not have the cheap look that the intrepid did. some mechanical issues with the 2.7, mostly related to an oil leak that plagued the car for 2.5 years and 54,000 miles (the dealer had it in every other oil change trying to fix it, they finally threw in the towel and put a new engine in it under warranty, the old engine ran great, just leaked oil through an imperfection in the block) The service at the Dodge dealer has been way above par for quality and service.

Both of these cars are pre bailout, and even up to the point of bailout, they were improving. everything I have heard is that *all* of their lineup is much improved. To underscore this point, my Dad bought a 2009 Ram 1500 truck (pre bailout). This is a man who swore up and down that he would never own a Dodge product. Ever. This is due to the quality issues that Dodge has, so when he showed me the truck I was flabberghasted, as Dodge must have really made one HELL of an impression on him to switch from Ford/Buick/Toyota that he always bought before. He is quite satisfied with this truck.

One thing to note about Dodge is that while they took the bailout, they did pay it back fairly soon. The one thing that I do hope is that they do not run the company into the ground again in 30 years... (remember the late 70's and early 80's? they were bailed out then too...) I think this Marcione guy has so far done well with Dodge/Chrysler. it still has issues, but he is slowly turning it around.

Now GM on the otherhand....

AJ

I agree with 85_Ranger4x4, easy to improve on crappy numbers. Think back to early 2009, GM and Chrysler were on life-support and Ford started putting out amazing sales increases even in the depths of the recession (which is nearing another leg down, BTW...thanks to Barry)

And furthermore, Dodge is no longer an American company (thanks to Barry). Fiat keeps upping its ownership stake....now up to 62%.

Fiat SpA is raising its ownership of Chrysler Group LLC from 58.5 percent to 61.8 percent, its top executive said Tuesday (July 3, 2012), as the Auburn Hills automaker steams toward $3 billion in operating profits this year.

"Chrysler sold 1.23 million cars in the first half, which is over half of our target," Fiat-Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne told reporters in Milan, according to Reuters. "The objective of $3 billion is close at hand. We could overshoot it."

Marchionne said Chrysler, whose 2012 sales are up more than 30 percent compared to the first half of 2011, may need to expand production. But he declined to say where that might happen.

Chrysler has added jobs and production in the U.S., including a third shift at its Belvidere, Ill., plant, where it is building its new Dart compact.

Fiat has controlled the Auburn Hills automaker since Chrysler exited bankruptcy in June 2009 as part of a $12.5 billion government bailout.

Through 2016, it has an option to acquire — a bit at a time — an additional 20 percent of Chrysler that is held by the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, a trust fund administered by the United Auto Workers and used to pay for hourly retiree health care.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120704/AUTO0101/207040317#ixzz1zd54ZKai

GM and Chrysler should have been put out to pasture, sold off, and made into respectable American brands free from all of the union legacy costs that were a noose around their necks forcing them to produce crappy, one-platform-fits-all junk on wheels.

97RangerXLT said:

many had transmission issues

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I still think of a Chrysler automatic trans as a joke rather than a power train assembly.

But then, I know about the more recent incidents with transmissions in the vans breaking as they came off the car carrier at the dealership.

One thing I noticed on the Intrepid's transmission, if the fluid went down a half a quart, it would slip. if it was maintained at the proper level, it drove great. even at 194k. And I beat that car like a red headed stepchild that owed me money. Chrysler is now putting in 8 speed autos in the 300C's and the Chargers. I am wondering how their reliability is going to hold up...my 2009 Charger has more or less the same transmission as the intrepid, but since it is rear wheel drive, it does not have the differential on it. It does have the same shift characteristics as the intrepid tho...

Something my Father In Law told me, he has a friend that owns a transmission rebuild shop and he told him that when rebuilding transmissions out of GM and Chryslers because of the design he will see them back in the shop again after x amount of years/ miles. but the Fords, once those are rebuilt he never sees those again. he said that ford only uses half of the available slots for one of the internal parts of the transmissions (I think it is the clutch packs, not sure) and when he rebuilds them he puts the parts in ALL of the slots, and it increases the durability/ strenght of the transmission. Don't know how true that is, but it is an interesting bit of info.

AJ

6.2 said:

Actually, they didn't take out loans.
They took out lines of credit a few years before all the bailout crap.

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If they actually use the line of credit it is a loan, I would assume they didn't go through the work of setting that up as they was losing money hand over fist and not use them...

rrbrian222 said:

And furthermore, Dodge is no longer an American company (thanks to Barry). Fiat keeps upping its ownership stake....now up to 62%.

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Diamler Chrysler wasn't al that American either...

this guy doesnt give a shit what you think. he's just advertising these shirts he's selling on ebay.

kunar said:

this guy doesnt give a shit what you think. he's just advertising these shirts he's selling on ebay.

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LOL! Yes he is! I bought one the last time he posted....Pretty nice shirt!

Back in the 80's when Chrysler went bell up they were in a very close association with Mitsubishi. That, and the government loan, brought them back then. Fiat will bring them back this time. The 500 looks like a wart, but the new Dart looks promising.