time for more flex .... hope u guys can help

[spash94]

Becides getting a 6 inch drop pitman ARM from sj is there anything else I need to know I was going to buy a brand new stock setup and run the drop pitman just so the steering was tight.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by 4x4junkie

Very true if you factor in cost vs. durability (especially while building on OEM platforms), however with enough budget a SLA-IFS tends to have an advantage because of it's "cleaner" (as well as highly tunable) wheel travel characteristics (especially as speeds go higher).




You're saying this is all due to frame flex?

What flex am I looking at? Passenger side is dropping out with nothing under it drivers side is tucking with a rock. That's exactly how any ifs would respond to that situation. Just because it looks like a solid axle would doesn't make it flexing out. Don't get me wrong TTBs are great but its humanly impossible to flex one that's not how IFS works.

[prerunnerwannabe]

Originally Posted by cdawall

What flex am I looking at? Passenger side is dropping out with nothing under it drivers side is tucking with a rock. That's exactly how any ifs would respond to that situation. Just because it looks like a solid axle would doesn't make it flexing out. Don't get me wrong TTBs are great but its humanly impossible to flex one that's not how IFS works.

If you look, the rear drivers side tire is dropped out so that the entire suspension is articulated to its max, so I'm pretty sure a solid axle with the same springs/lift would have done more or less the same thing under those circumstances.
But I could be wrong...

[4x4junkie]

Originally Posted by spash94

Becides getting a 6 inch drop pitman ARM from sj is there anything else I need to know I was going to buy a brand new stock setup and run the drop pitman just so the steering was tight.

The Skyjacker pt# FA600 drop pitman arm should work fine if you're set up for 4" lift. I'd suggest a K-link setup for it though (less stress on the steering box shaft). A K-link or other setup would be mandatory if you want more than 4" lift with softer coils anyway.

Originally Posted by prerunnerwannabe

If you look, the rear drivers side tire is dropped out so that the entire suspension is articulated to its max, so I'm pretty sure a solid axle with the same springs/lift would have done more or less the same thing under those circumstances.
But I could be wrong...

For sure it would have.
I've concluded he must be playing a semantics card, because that post makes just about as much sense as a solid axle remaining rigid in that circumstance.
Fact remains, TTBs will outperform solid axles in a lot of offroad situations too. But there's more situations far & wide where either one would work about the same than situations where one can outperform the other. Some apparently just have a hard time realizing this.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by prerunnerwannabe

If you look, the rear drivers side tire is dropped out so that the entire suspension is articulated to its max, so I'm pretty sure a solid axle with the same springs/lift would have done more or less the same thing under those circumstances.
But I could be wrong...

It would do similar I was simply pointing out IFS does not articulate like a solid axle that is purely its design.

Originally Posted by 4x4junkie

For sure it would have.
I've concluded he must be playing a semantics card, because that post makes just about as much sense as a solid axle remaining rigid in that circumstance.
Fact remains, TTBs will outperform solid axles in a lot of offroad situations too. But there's more situations far & wide where either one would work about the same than situations where one can outperform the other. Some apparently just have a hard time realizing this.

There are ton's of situations that solid axles perform better. There is one situation that TTB's perform better and that is after you build the crap out of them (prerunning). This is the reason KOH guys prefer solid axles there are many threads on pirate about this exact thing.

[kryptonitecb]

If a solid axle flexes so well then why do the desert racers use ifs? Solid axles have their place and for the cost of a sas you can flex out a ttb. Plus if you really want to flex a solid axle you'll have to link it, kinda like how a ttb already is. For fairness solid axles are far stronger than a ttb.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

If a solid axle flexes so well then why do the desert racers use ifs? Solid axles have their place and for the cost of a sas you can flex out a ttb. Plus if you really want to flex a solid axle you'll have to link it, kinda like how a ttb already is. For fairness solid axles are far stronger than a ttb.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

Was that a serious question? IFS has the option of more travel deser racing has nothing to do with flex. If you read my post I mentioned it as well. In all fairness the jeepspeed guys do run SFA vehicles.

IFS will never flex. Flex is caused by one wheel pushing the other up or down. IFS cannot do that it is how IFS works. You can make a TTB drop out and compress better, but its still not a solid axle.

[prerunnerwannabe]

Originally Posted by cdawall

IFS will never flex. Flex is caused by one wheel pushing the other up or down. IFS cannot do that it is how IFS works. You can make a TTB drop out and compress better, but its still not a solid axle.

Ohhhh I see what you are saying now. See I understood flex as just another way of saying wheel travel. In that case yes, an ifs will never 'flex' like a solid axle does.

[kryptonitecb]

Originally Posted by cdawall

Was that a serious question? IFS has the option of more travel deser racing has nothing to do with flex. If you read my post I mentioned it as well. In all fairness the jeepspeed guys do run SFA vehicles.

IFS will never flex. Flex is caused by one wheel pushing the other up or down. IFS cannot do that it is how IFS works. You can make a TTB drop out and compress better, but its still not a solid axle.

When did flex not equal travel? The coil springs will push the respective wheel down allowing each wheel to move independent of another. Which gives each tire a better foot print. If you have a solid axle its geometry is limited by the movement of both ends of the axle working against each other hence less travel/flex. You shouldn't be relying on the force of one tire pushing up in order to push the other tire down.

In a ttb your vehicle has the ability to be on a hillside with both tires planted on the ground with a better foot print than a solid axle. It also would keep your vehicle from leaning as far over in extreme circumstances.

Read my earlier post I already agreed a solid axle was stronger. My original point was that for the cost you can get more flex/travel from a ttb than a solid axle. In order to get the same you would need to get good leaf springs or link it. Compared to a ttb only needing a set of coil springs.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

When did flex not equal travel? The coil springs will push the respective wheel down allowing each wheel to move independent of another. Which gives each tire a better foot print. If you have a solid axle its geometry is limited by the movement of both ends of the axle working against each other hence less travel/flex. You shouldn't be relying on the force of one tire pushing up in order to push the other tire down.

Flex and wheel travel have never been the same thing. When was the last time you saw a prerunner with all 4 wheels hanging at full droop mention how much he was flexed out, how about all 4 at full stuff? Thats wheel travel full droop to full stuff ie how for the wheel travels. Thats a lot different than stuffing one rear and one front on opposite sides of the vehicle. That is flex and that is something solid axle's do a million times better than any form of IFS. That is something IFS cannot not do.

You also are not relying on the opposite tire to force the axle down they have individual forces acting on them as well as opposing from the other tire. That is why they are able to drop out and respond differently than a TTB does.

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

In a ttb your vehicle has the ability to be on a hillside with both tires planted on the ground with a better foot print than a solid axle. It also would keep your vehicle from leaning as far over in extreme circumstances.

Typically there is more lean to the low side on a solid axle which is why there are sway bars which load the other coil and give the solid axle a better foot print.

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

Read my earlier post I already agreed a solid axle was stronger. My original point was that for the cost you can get more flex/travel from a ttb than a solid axle. In order to get the same you would need to get good leaf springs or link it. Compared to a ttb only needing a set of coil springs.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

You can get more travel out of a TTB you still will never get real flex like a solid axle has. To get good travel out of a TTB you need more than coil springs you need different radius arms, cut and turned beams etc. You can build the holy hell out of a TTB and it will still never climb rocks like a solid axle does. That is why most KOH don't have IFS at all and it is common knowlegde they cannot climb rocks like a solid axle since they cannot flex like one.

If you want to continue to argue how a TTB is so awesome post that up on pirate. Point out how travel and flex are the same thing while you are at it. See how long that shit lasts before you are flamed off the site.

[kryptonitecb]

I must be using my app wrong cause I'm pretty sure we're on the ranger station. Guys on pirate also think you have a small weeny unless you have 40+ tires and at least tons. If you want opinion go back to pirate where they will bash you for not having a Toyota.

KOH racers also aren't your typical driver. That's like saying you need a F1 engine in your honda cause "that's what they use". Do your research and come back when you're ready to listen.

I'll type this for you one last time: solid axles are STRONGER, however stock leaf springs compared to a ttb(since neither of our arguments can not account for every variation) DO NOT FLEX OR TRAVEL as far.

To the OP, you can sas, or you can get some coil springs with a lower pressure rating. Those are the options, do your research also and find what best works for you.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

I must be using my app wrong cause I'm pretty sure we're on the ranger station. Guys on pirate also think you have a small weeny unless you have 40+ tires and at least tons. If you want opinion go back to pirate where they will bash you for not having a Toyota.

So I take it you asked a dumb question on pirate already and got flamed off? I have never been bashed for small tires or owning a ranger or a jeep.

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

KOH racers also aren't your typical driver. That's like saying you need a F1 engine in your honda cause "that's what they use". Do your research and come back when you're ready to listen.

Rock crawlers are not either guess thats why they use a solid axle. How about you google how IFS works and comes back. You obviously don't want to listen either as I have explained this multiple times multiple ways FLEX != WHEEL TRAVEL. IFS Cannot flex regardless to it being a TTB, SLA, etc. When you get a TTB to actually flex let me know because I want to see were you welded it solid.

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

I'll type this for you one last time: solid axles are STRONGER, however stock leaf springs compared to a ttb(since neither of our arguments can not account for every variation) DO NOT FLEX OR TRAVEL as far.

The only TTB I know that has leafs is the D50 and it sure as hell didn't make it into the ranger.

Originally Posted by kryptonitecb

To the OP, you can sas, or you can get some coil springs with a lower pressure rating. Those are the options, do your research also and find what best works for you.

Sent from road while ignoring traffic

OP you can get lower PPI coils and longer radius arms and you will still have a TTB that cannot physically flex due to design.