2.9 and 2.8 flywheels and clutches?

[Natedog]

Is there any difference between 2.9 and 2.8 flywheels and clutches?

[BobR]

the only diffrence is the pilot bearing with a 2.8 its in the crank, 2.9 its in the flywheel.


Bob

[MAKG]

Except for 1985, which has it in the flywheel.

[Natedog]

So the EDIT: fm145 will fit either 2.8 or 2.9, but I need to get the 2.9 flywheel? Or can I use the 2.8 flywheel? Which flywheel woould be better on my 2.9?

[BobR]

So the fm146 will fit either 2.8 or 2.9, but I need to get the 2.9 flywheel? Or can I use the 2.8 flywheel? Which flywheel woould be better on my 2.9?

is this an upgrade or cheap swap. the stronger easy swap is the M5OD.

Bob

[MAKG]

I would refuse an FM146 for a swap into a 1983-87 vehicle even if it was free. For all the work you'll need to do to fit that in, just buy a Mazda.

[Natedog]

is this an upgrade or cheap swap. the stronger easy swap is the M5OD.

Bob

Upgrade swap from an a4ld 4x4 with electric xfer case. I have a EDIT: fm145 with manual xfer case in unknown condition and a 2.8 flywheel and clutch assy that came off a 2.8 4x4.

My tranny shop said the M5R1 (same as M5OD, correct?) are better and easier to get parts for than the fm146 or Mitsubishi tranny, but wasn't sure if they would be a direct bolt up to my 2.9. I was going to have the tranny and xfer rebuilt and then I'd install it, but he doesn't have any good cores at the moment, they all need lots of parts to be rebuilt properly = $$$. I want to do this right (one time only...LOL) and so I'm trying to gather all the parts and rebuild as needed so that it can be done all in one weekend. :) Unlike my cab/bed, dual tank, reciever hitch, etc swap. :icon_twisted: :icon_rofl:

So it would be that much better to do the M5R1? What all would I need as far as flywheel, clutch , drivelines, etc to do the M5R1?

[BobR]

So it would be that much better to do the M5R1? What all would I need as far as flywheel, clutch , drivelines, etc to do the M5R1?

yes

little different than the other 5speed discussed.

IIRC the '89 of the same vehicle will have everything you need.

in my opinion the hardest part of this chore will be the pedal & such.


Bob

[Natedog]

Going to junkyard tomorrow...any tips appreciated as far as special tools for clutch pedal etc.

[rickcdewitt]

to get a m5od of that bellhousing pattern you need a 4.0l tranny.the m5od from my 91 exploder is the same length as my fm-146 so you might be able to use the drivelines that came with a fm146 truck if you use the same type of transfer case as was on the 146.you need the flywheel,clutch,starter and positive battery cable/starter jumper harness from the donor truck to hook up to the starter.

[MAKG]

Yes, the FM146 is a drop in replacment for a 4WD M5OD with the right bellhousing pattern. Both are the same length as the A4LD.

You can reuse your existing transfer case and driveshafts with it.

An M5OD from behind a 4WD 2.9L will work as well, though these aren't all that easy to find (most had FM146s). The gear ratios are not the same -- 2.9Ls are slightly wider.

A 2WD M5OD will NOT work. Don't even ask about "converting." An M5OD from behind a 3.0L or any 4banger will NOT work, unless you are highly skilled at cutting and welding cast aluminum.

[rickcdewitt]

i would have never rebuilt my fm-146 if i had seen more of this site at that time,i'll save my m5od for later.

[Natedog]

Sorry guys, it's an FM145, not FM146 that I have...musta been late :beer::beer::beer: when I read the tag on it.

My tranny guy is going to build a 2.9 version of the M5R1 for me and I'm re-using my BW1350 because I have it already and it feels real good, but going to open it up to be sure and at least change seals while it's apart. Got a flywheel for 2.9 today with new ring gear and all re-surfaced. Prolly use a stock type Luk brand clutch. FYI, clutch place says 2.8 and 2.9 flywheel is supposedly different but they didn't know how and didn't have one of each to compare.

Going to yard tomorrow :3gears: to look for pedals and tcase shifter assy...wish me luck.

[AllanD]

The first year of the Mitsubishi FM145 was 1985, so it will only work with the '85 2.8 flywheel, which is the same as the 2.9 flywheel.

The T-K transmissions used with the pilot-bearing-in-the-crank '83-84 2.8 setup had a longer pilot "snout" on the input shaft.

The clutch disc and pressure plate is the same, but '85 was also the first year for the "internal" slave cylinder.

AD

[MAKG]

Hmm, that makes a bit of a difference.... an FM145 is two inches too short and you're going to be doing quite a lot of work to cram that in there.

The transfer case should work fine. But the shift lever won't. It was meant for a case mounted two inches further forward, so it's going to hit your dashboard.

[BobR]

Hmm, that makes a bit of a difference.... an FM145 is two inches too short and you're going to be doing quite a lot of work to cram that in there.

The transfer case should work fine. But the shift lever won't. It was meant for a case mounted two inches further forward, so it's going to hit your dashboard.

couldn't the clearance/function issues be overcome by using the t-case shifter and linkages (including the are from the tcase) that came with the tranny being installed. and perhaps opening up the hole in the floor.




Bob

[MAKG]

I got the interference backwards... it may hit the seat, and the boot may not like it much.

[Natedog]

Got my clutch/brake pedal assy today and now I have a heck of a kink in my neck from laying under the dash in mud and rain. Still need bellhousing bolts, clutch master and fluid line.

The M5R1 is the tranny that I'm going to use with the 1350 manual tcase to replace my A4LD and electric 1350 tcase. Unfortunately, I don't have the tcase shifter and mount for it. What floorplate and boots should I look for? I didn't find an M5R1 with manual tcase today.

[rickcdewitt]

nate you should use the flywheel,clutch and starter from a 4.0l to get a 10" clutch.you need the positive battery cable and jumper harness from the fenderwell relay down to the starter from the donor truck to make it easy.the shift linkage is very similar on the two tcases you can probably get it to fit the m5od.you will probably need the boot and floor plate from a m5od/manual shift truck. fm-146 stuff might work since the trannies are the same length but the shifters come out of the tranny at different spots.

[Natedog]

Tryin to keep costs down, this is alrady costing me more than it was supposed to. :D I think I'll be fine with 2.9 clutch and 235/75R 15s.

[AllanD]

Actually the T-case shifter will be in exactly the same place relative
to the driver, but the "arm" that works the T-case will be the wrong length.

There is no "linkage" with any of the RBV T-cases.

AllanD

[Natedog]

Actually the T-case shifter will be in exactly the same place relative
to the driver, but the "arm" that works the T-case will be the wrong length.

There is no "linkage" with any of the RBV T-cases.

AllanD

I have the manual tcase shifter from my fm145 tranny...will that work with my M5R1?

[rickcdewitt]

only if the mounting boss on the m5od is in the same spot as the fm-145.the one with the large pivot bolt and small shifter gate bolt

[Natedog]

Don't know yet, won't have the tranny untill next week hopefully.

[Natedog]

Called auto parts store yesterday and the clutch master, fluid line, and slave cylinder are different for 1987 and 1991. The 1991 for 2.9 and 4.0 are supposedly the same clutch parts. I think I need to use the clutch, clutch master, QD fluid line and slave cylinder for the 1991, is this correct?

[rickcdewitt]

Called auto parts store yesterday and the clutch master, fluid line, and slave cylinder are different for 1987 and 1991. The 1991 for 2.9 and 4.0 are supposedly the same clutch parts. I think I need to use the clutch, clutch master, QD fluid line and slave cylinder for the 1991, is this correct?as far as i know theres only one part # for slave cylinder on rbvs.the clutch should be specific to the engine not year model also.the 88 i had is the same master as my 91,i don't know about 87 though.your stock clutch line should plug into the new(reccomended)hydralic throw out cylinder

[Hahnsb2]

FWIW worth Ive seen 2.9s with the pilot bearing in the crank and the flywheel.

[Natedog]

as far as i know theres only one part # for slave cylinder on rbvs.the clutch should be specific to the engine not year model also.the 88 i had is the same master as my 91,i don't know about 87 though.your stock clutch line should plug into the new(reccomended)hydralic throw out cylinder

You'd think so, but that's not what the local parts yo yos told me...lol. I have not stock clutch line because it was an automatic, so I have to buy a hose too. I'm lookin at the 1991 because it's 2.9, M5R1, and has the QD clutch line.

[rickcdewitt]

You'd think so, but that's not what the local parts yo yos told me...lol. I have not stock clutch line because it was an automatic, so I have to buy a hose too. I'm lookin at the 1991 because it's 2.9, M5R1, and has the QD clutch line.you are probably right,allan d was saying in the recent thread"slave cylinder 2.9l vs 3.0l on post #4 which years have what style,you probably woulden't go wrong with the same year stuff as the tranny(91-92 2.9lm5od)its a good idea to ask allen d.i like the QD because you don't need to bleed it when you take it apart i wish my 91 2.9l had an m5od-r1 behind it,i rebuilt my fm146 before i knew about the swap.:dunno:
my thought on the shifter is cut off and reweld or redrill the phlange that holds the shifter(large pivot bolt,small bolt) if the m5od has it in another spot

[Natedog]

My reconditioned flywheel has about 1.125" hole for the pilot bearing...but the pilot bearing in the clutch kit for a 1991 has needle pilot bearing that is about 0.625" OD...what do I need to buy? DOn't have my old flywheel and don't remember what size the hole was in it, but thinikin it was smaller like the pilot bearing that I bought. My 1987 manual seems to show two different sizes of pilot bearings and one is in like a sleeve with a shoulder so that it can only go in the flywheel one way. Also what size are the clutch pressur plate bolts supposed to be?

[rickcdewitt]

My reconditioned flywheel has about 1.125" hole for the pilot bearing...but the pilot bearing in the clutch kit for a 1991 has needle pilot bearing that is about 0.625" OD...what do I need to buy? DOn't have my old flywheel and don't remember what size the hole was in it, but thinikin it was smaller like the pilot bearing that I bought. My 1987 manual seems to show two different sizes of pilot bearings and one is in like a sleeve with a shoulder so that it can only go in the flywheel one way. Also what size are the clutch pressur plate bolts supposed to be?wasen't some one saying that the 2.8 has the bearing in the crank?i've never seen a pilot bearing thats 1" i bet its a 2.8 flywheel where the input shaft goes through.a new flywheel is about 70$ which is pretty good compared to 35$ to have an old one surfaced and maybe have problems with it.all my fords 88-91 have the small roller bearing.

[Natedog]

Yes, that's what was said. Dangit...now I gotta drive way back out to BFE where the clutch/flywheel place is!!!:pissedoff:

[Natedog]

SO the clutch place that I got the rebuilt flywheel from says it's the right flywheel. It's for a 1985-92 Ranger with a 2.9.

I need the small pilot bearing hole flywheel...what do I tell them it's for?

[cocoasranger]

Natedog,
I recently did the auto to Mazda R-1 swap so I can spare you the grief I went through. I had all the same questions you are asking and finally figured it out with the help of many on the TRS site.

There is a collar you need which has an o.d. that's a press fit into the flywheel hole,and an i.d. which the pilot bearing press fits into. I had to get one used since auto parts doesn't have them ( or know about them apparently.) Then you can use the flywheel with the large center hole as I did.

I used the M5OD R-1 trans from a 4.0L Ranger along with my existing 89 Ranger manual transfer case plus the 10" clutch and starter upgrade. Also upgraded to a 93-94 clutch master, line, and slave for a better clutch pedal release. The twin shift boot assembly screwed right into the holes in the floor without any modifications.

[Natedog]

I'm using 91 Ranger clutch parts for 2.9 (not the 4.0 setup) but mine is the qd clutch fluid line. The one you used has better clutch release?

I saw that piece for the flywheel that you described...in my factory manual but it doesn't really say much about it. I need to get this straightened out with the supposed clutch specialty place that I bought my flywheel from today....costing me more vacation time to drive way out there!!!!!

My core flywheel had teh smaller pilot bearing hole....what truck it came from originally I don't know. Does anybody know?

[cocoasranger]

My hydraulic clutch has the quick disconnect also. The earlier trucks had the pilot bearing pressed into a hole in the crank flange. The earlier transmissions had longer input shafts which were able to reach this far forward. The Mazda trans has a shorter input shaft, so the pilot bearing in this setup is pressed into the fly wheel which sits further back so the front of the input shaft will fit into it.

I had the same problem you have. Flywheel listed for my truck had a hole way too big for the pilot bearing listed. Do yourself a favor and just get the sleeve (collar) from the junk yard or have someone on this site press one out of a junk flywheel they have laying around and mail it to you. Then just press the small pilot bearing into the collar, then press the collar into your new flywheel. That's what I did and the Ranger runs great. By the way the actual collar is just a thick walled short piece of steel without the flange like they show in the repair manuals.

Yes, my clutch release is great. No complaints.

[Natedog]

Good news is I got my original core flywheel back from the shop....they couldnt' get one until Monday and I'm tired of waiting on them and driving back and forth to BFE. Bought a new ring gear and having local parts store press new gear on, machine flywheel surface, and press pilot bearing in and out.

Bad news is when I went to pick it up, they machined a 0.006" step into the clutch surface....making the pressure plate sit up 0.006" higher than the disc clamping surface. I thought these flywheels are supposed to be flat....which when he looked it up, it shows them all as flat. He says some early ones had the step and mine did, so he machined it that way. The new made in China flywheel I looked at earlier today was flat. Which way should it be, flat or stepped? :icon_confused:

[Natedog]

Good news is I got my original core flywheel back from the shop....they couldnt' get one until Monday and I'm tired of waiting on them and driving back and forth to BFE. Bought a new ring gear and having local parts store press new gear on, machine flywheel surface, and press pilot bearing in and out.

Bad news is when I went to pick it up, they machined a 0.006" step into the clutch surface....making the pressure plate sit up 0.006" higher than the disc clamping surface. I thought these flywheels are supposed to be flat....which when he looked it up, it shows them all as flat. He says some early ones had the step and mine did, so he machined it that way. The new made in China flywheel I looked at earlier today was flat. Which way should it be, flat or stepped? :icon_confused: Nothing is going easy lately on this.

[rickcdewitt]

91's are flat those guys sound clueless.i bet the new chinese flywheel is sounding good about now(also less $).

[Totalled]

Hmmm when I put the M5OD into my explorer, the 4.0 flywheel had the large hole in the center... I wasn't aware there was a bushing that pressed into it's center to take the pilot... fuggin ford.I put the pilot into the crank as that's what the Ford illustrations seemed to show for the 4.0...

[rickcdewitt]

hmm,i wonder if there are different input shaft lengths on the m5od.my 91 exploder had the small hole like my 2.9.i guess you want to use the flywheel for the right app.
you tech advisors know anything about that?

[Natedog]

Had mine machined flat and yeah the Chinese junk is sounding better...lol. Fawkin machinist didn't get the starter ring gear on all the way around either!!!! I took it anyways cause apparently this particular NAPA auto parts could screw it up even worse. I'll finish the job with a brass drift and bfh.

Totalled, sounds like ya might want to pull your tranny and give a close inspection.

[Totalled]

EDIT: Hmm.. The Ford Shop Manual is wrong.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b248/totalled/pilot-bearing.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b248/totalled/pilot-bearing1.jpg

I'm using a 2.9 M5OD FWIW in my explorer.

Now that I think about it, I remember sticking the flywheel/disk/pressure plate onto the input of my FM145 from my 2.8 and the input pilot stuck past the crankshaft side of the pilot bearing in the flywheel... I really don't think the input shafts are different lengths. I will however go to pick a part in the morning and look at the 1992 M5OD explorer I was taking other parts off and hopefully the flywheel is still there so I can be sure.

[rickcdewitt]

i just checked my old 88-92 2.9l and 91 4.0l flywheels and noticed they have the steel sleeve the little roller bearing sets in neither are like your one piece sleeve/bearing.they both go in the flywheel but i guess if the bearing wound up in the same spot it woulden't matter if the crank or flywheel held the bearing.i haven't seen a factory installed m5od 2.9l truck maybe they use the in crank bearing.either way if the bearing is set further away from the tranny the input shaft would have to be different.what year and model vehicle did you select for those pictures?

[Totalled]

Well never mind... I just got back from the yard and the 1992 explorer has the iron bushing and pilot bearing in the flywheel... Guess I get to R&R a trans for the 4th time in my explorer... Sucks. Would have been nice to have had a 4.0 manual vehicle for reference when I did the swap. Oh well. :idiot:

Those are shots from the 1992 Ford shop manual for a 1992 explorer.

I pulled the M5OD out of a 1990 Ranger 4x4 with a 2.9, 1354E, D35, and 7.5 rear. I didn't pay attention to it's clutch/flywheel when I pulled the trans since I wasn't gonna use the smaller 2.9 clutch on a 4.0 anyway. That and it was on a record hot day so I just wanted to get the trans and get out of there... :annoyed:

[Natedog]

Well never mind... I just got back from the yard and the 1992 explorer has the iron bushing and pilot bearing in the flywheel... Guess I get to R&R a trans for the 4th time in my explorer... Sucks. Would have been nice to have had a 4.0 manual vehicle for reference when I did the swap. Oh well. :idiot:

Those are shots from the 1992 Ford shop manual for a 1992 explorer....

My 87 Ranger Factory manual shows the same or very similiar and is also wrong. Sorry to hear you're pulling the tranny again. I'm really tired of working on trucks at the moment. My flywheel has a steel sleeve in the center and then the pilot bearing....doesn't look at all like the Ford pics. :icon_twisted: