Mitsu vs. Mazda Bell Housing Compatibility

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 17, 2007

Maybe this question has a completely obvious answer, but I couldn't find it even after searching.

Two 1987 Rangers, one 2x4 with a Mazda trans, the other 4x4 with a Mitsubishi trans. I'm doing an engine swap out of the 2x4 into the 4x4 and want to know if the Mitsu transmission will bolt to the Mazda bell housing, as the 2x4 engine will have to retain it's original bell housing. I'm not concerned about driveshafts, cross members, floor plates, shifters, etc, I just want to know if the bell housing end (mounting bolts, input shaft length, pilot bushing, throwout, etc) is compatible.

The Transmission FAQ here indicates that if you have a Bronco II with the dummy transfer case, then the best bet is to switch to a 2x4 Ranger transmission, which implies to me "Mazda". Any specific procedure for that swap might/should apply to my situation as well.

Thanks for any insights, this is the last bit of info I need before tearing into this project, and I'm a little bit nervous without being able to compare the two trans until I get them out on the ground and can compare them in RL.

2manyfords · Aug 18, 2007

The bellhousing on the Mazda does not unbolt from the transmission unlike the Mitsubishi.

I don't quite understand why you need to retain the Mazda Bellhousing. They share the same bell bolt pattern.

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 18, 2007

2manyfords said:
The bellhousing on the Mazda does not unbolt from the transmission unlike the Mitsubishi.

Well, you know, that's what I keep reading, and the photo on the Trans FAQ page clearly shows this, but the trans in my 2x4 definitely has a bolt-on bell housing. I was basing my decision that it has a Mazda trans partly on the Haynes manual, which has drawings (not photos, sadly) of the two transmissions, and both show bolt-on.

I'll put the 2x4 up on some ramps today and try to get a better look at the trans and see if I can figure out what it really is.

I was kind of being vague about the engine in the 2x4 on purpose, but trust me, the bell housing has to stay with the engine.

Oh, and thanks for the reply!

MAKG · Aug 18, 2007

If the bellhousing unbolts, it's not a Mazda transmission.

If it's a 1987, it's not a Mazda transmission (at least from the factory), since they didn't appear until the next year.

All of the 2WD transmissions in 1987 are TK5s. Most of the 4WD transmissions are Mitsubishi FM145s (though there are a few 4WD TK5s running around). The bellhousings DO interchange between these transmissions.

Be careful about your identifications. Getting this wrong is a very bad thing, especially if you need parts or you're trying to figure out what fluid to put in there.

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 18, 2007

OK, that mystery is solved. I rolled under the truck with a print out of the exploded view of the TK5 transmission instead of attempting to rely on my memory of the photo on my monitor that I turned off an hour before.

Yes, the 4x2 has the TK5 with the 4x2 extension housing. You say that the TK5 and the Mitsu FM145 are bolt-up interchangeable at the bell housing end? That's great news, but it brings up another question. Assuming that I could find a 4x4 extension housing for the TK5, which transmission would be preferred (assuming that I can keep my existing transfer case)? I won't be making fabulous horsepower with the engine swap, but there will be considerably more torque than the 2.3l that's in it now.

MAKG · Aug 18, 2007

Umm, there is more to a transmission than an extension housing. This WILL NOT WORK, and besides, 4x4 TK5s are rare enough that the extension housing and mainshaft together cost as much as a whole 4x4 transmission.

Get the idea of converting a 4x2 transmission to 4x4 out of your head. It is ALMOST NEVER possible without a massive amount of work and expense.

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 18, 2007

Okaaay, Expensive + Difficult + Unobtainium = Forget It.

I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some good reason to stick with the TK5 instead of using the already-setup Mitsu, which is working fine. I'll have enough to do with the engine swap. And not to be too mysterious about that, I find that the less I tell about what I'm doing at first, the better off I am. For some reason, mentioning the "D-word" sets off all kind of alarms in people's heads and they clam up, even about stuff they know well.

MAKG · Aug 18, 2007

Well, Diesel conversions are explicitly forbidden by the Clean Air Act, so there might be a good reason for that. Unless this is going to be a trail-only vehicle (meaning you TRAILER it everywhere), that's a dead end.

Ozwynn · Aug 18, 2007

good luck.......... get it re-vinned as a diesel in another state and then go back to California.

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 18, 2007

California??!! No, I live in Oregon, where, unless you are unfortunate enough to live in Portland, or a couple of smaller cities in the south end of the state, there are NO emissions inspections. Anyway, the whole point of a diesel swap is to eliminate the need to use evil petroleum products altogether. My tailpipe emissions running Biodiesel will be 60-90% lower than those of the existing gasoline engine, depending on which particular pollutant you are looking at.

MAKG · Aug 18, 2007

The Clean Air Act is Federal, and unless you live in some part of Oregon that isn't in the US, it applies to you. Getting it "re-VINed" as a Diesel is not legal in the US, and it will be gray market elsewhere, meaning you may not be able to import it back. Probably not given the circumstances.

Mr. Sharkey · Aug 19, 2007

Oh merciful heavens! I guess that means that I will be an outlaw running from the Clean Air Police!! Hope they don't send me to Guantanamo!!!

My buddy Justin better hope they don't catch him after I rat him out in a plea bargain. He swaps one and sometimes two gas-to-diesel vehicles a week.

samwe · Oct 3, 2007

Interesting thread...
Is it being said that the TK or mazda tranny should be able to to bolt to the 2.3 turbo diesel that is stock on my '86 Ranger?

AllanD · Oct 4, 2007

Uhhh.... Actually, if he builds the truck to specifically run it on Biodiesel fuel
then wouldn't the vehicle be emmissions exempt as an "Altrernative fuel vehicle"?

Remember there is ALWAYS a "loophole" if you are clever enough to find it....

Oh and BTW, you can ALWAYS swap the entire CAB from the diesel truck onto the 4x4 frame and claim it as a 4x4 conversion
OR swap just the VIN tag and do the same thing. (legality variable depending on local laws)

If the Diesel cab is a rusty POS get the truck running first with the Diesel cab and the diesel VIN and THEN swap the cab over LATER as a "rust repair" and keep the Diesel VIN in the "new" cab.

the exact sequence of events should be determined by how your local laws are worded.

the idea of a "Truck" is a foggy concept here in PA because we are allowed to replace ANYTHING in the name of "repair"
This is why our local junkyards will even sell you a Bronco2 body
shell, but ONLY if it is seperated from the frame....

Hell I can only tell you what is original on my '87 supercab because I've kept track, the cab shell, the dashboard wiring harness, both frame side rails, TWO of the NINE frame crossmembers (The one between the rear cab mounts and the one between the rear bumper mounts) and that's especially impressive because my truck has THREE extra crossmember that it didn't have when it left the TwinCities assembly plant in February of 1987.

And I'm about to replace the cab shell

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samwe · Oct 5, 2007

At this point I am prety sure that the Mitsu tranny in my TD ranger uses a different bellhousing than other Mistu tranny'd Rangers.

What I need to find out know is if teh bellhousing from the Mitsu tranny will bolt onto the TK5. If so I can use a TK5 behind my TD instead of the Mitsu tranny.

Am I correct in understand the TK5 is stronger than the fm145?

Mitsu vs. Mazda Bell Housing Compatibility

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