Getting a larger Hard Drive Recognized

[AllanD]

I was given a Gateway M350WVN notebook and shortly after raising it from the dead (corrupted OS), the HDD it was (Toshiba) using failed, stone dead.

So I went to NewEgg looking for another IDE/ATA-6 notebook drive.

Seemed that the best deal (at the time) was a WD Scorpio blue 320Gb drive.

Not thinking there would be any issues I plugged it into my desktop to format it (speeding the process as my desktop is faster) then installed it in the laptop and used the optical drive to re-install the OS.

The OS (Win XP home SP3) went in smoothly but then was when the problem developed, I had set up the drive with a small (relative to the size of the drive) partition, 25Gb which is more than adequate for the OS, because I don't like the OS creating fragmentation in my data.

XP, AVG and my mail programs are all "dirty" programs and I prefer isolating them

when the problem began was when I tried to create a second partition
(via XP's "Disc Manager") for my data partition... and there was only
107Gb unallocated space.... Huh?

Trying to create a partition via my USB adapter (doing it with the HDD on my desktop) larger than 107Gb and the notebook won't boot, "unadressable volume"

So my 320gb drive is only recognized as ~130Gb

That is the background, now to the all too obvious queston:

What must I do to Get the full size of the drive recognized?
Presuming of course that it is possible. to do so...

Anyone have any ideas?

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[michowski]

What format did you partion the drive as? I dont remember the exact size anymore but I know fat32 only went up so far. NTFS is the format you need for large drives.

[AllanD]

It is formatted NTFS.

the only things I have that are Fat32 are my two Flash Drives.

there's currently the "system" partition (WinXP and all my program software)
about 20Gb and a 2gb partition I use for image files.

The thing is I got the big drive so I could have ~100Gb for audio and the
rest (180gb or so) for Video.

Allowing 50% of the "system" partition and 25% of each of the other partitions
for easy defragmentation.

But I'll tell you, if I've gotta get another laptop to have a laptop with a 320gb
or larger HDD I'll buy a newer one that takes SATA drives and get one with
a HDD >500Gb

this one will work for audio, but...

Oh, and please don't tell me "Just get an external drive".

I don't WANT an external drive it's another goddamned "dangling thing"
you've gotta connect, disconnect, wind up the cable, stuff it in the laptop case,
etc...

The other issue with external drives is that by nature they get dropped.

typically dropping one ONCE is enough to kill it.

Now, if SSD drives were cheap enough...

No to mention that USB is never as fast as the internal drive.

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[schmoo]

if you use the xp install cd to prepare the drive,
it ends up as 128 meg.
prepare it in disk management in xp-
(control panel\administrative tools\computer management\
disk management) delete all partitions then create a new
one. after it formats, set it as active.
then do your install. or, if you are happy with your current one,
copy it first, then copy it back.

[mp3deviant721]

Did you try using a third-party program to format your drive?

[smokey]

Do you have the newest Bios installed?
The newest is BIOS version 34.01.00

[AllanD]

The formatting of the drive isn't at issue, SFAIK formatted NTFS is formatted NTFS... Am I wrong? if so how? Please explain

and with my OS installed on it and my XP install Verified (at the expense of
a LONG call to Microsoft Tech services (which I don't wanna have to do again...)

so, Formatting it again currently isn't an option

Basically I ain't formatting it again until AFTER I get the OS "cloned" to another drive.

This notebook originally came with either a 40Gb or 60gb drive and the
factory upgrades were 80gb and later 120gb, it may not be possible to get
it to see all of a drive larger than 130gb


The current bios is 34.00.23 and though I've downloaded the new bios
I'm missing "winphlash" to install it (why the hell they don't include that
in the self extracting zip I don't know) not that I am at all comfortable with
the quality and clarity of Gateways instructions included in the readme files
for the less critical system drivers (that was a nightmare, it took 15 tries to
get the sound working and all damned day to get the wireless functional
(odd because the first time the wireless worked immediatly
and it was the wired ethernet that wouldn't work)

the sequeence of actions to install the drivers for the network
(both wired and wireless driver installation instructions were both
missing important steps necissary to get to the page I needed to be on)

If that happens while loading a new bios I remove the HDD from the laptop
and run the rest of it over with the truck... several times.... before stuffing
it in the trash.

so I'm less than comfortable with re flashing the bios.

NOT that a larger HDD size recognition is one of the things that the updated
bios is supposed to fix anyway...

If someone could tell me positively that it does fix that problem I'll take a chance.
But so far all I've gotten everywhere else is deafening silence.


The thing is the notebook works NOW, it has 100gb of available volume NOW
if it fails during bios update the notebook becomes a paperweight.
(with a 1 week old 320gb IDE laptop drive in it)

And after the response (or more precisely NON response) from gateway
support I won't be buying another gateway

I've NEVER been blown off by HP or Dell support like that, even on 10 year old machines
I picked out of the trash (and told their support people I picked them out of the trash!)
they atleast try to talk to me and help with the problem.

good customer service makes me feel real good about a company.

BAD customer service not only makes me not buy from them again,
but I'll shout from the mountaintops to discourage others from buying
their phucking garbage.

If they suddenly contact me and work through the problem I'll be their newest
best salesman, but I really doubt they are that smart.


Gateway basically told me "we aren't that company any more,
bug someone else" and gave me a dead link to the support forum.
(I found the support forum though a google search)

My answer to that is phuck them.

and in my case it isn't just words, I won't just sit here and stew, I'll sit at my
keyboard and tell 40,000 friends what I think of their customer service.

My next notebook is likely to be either a Lenovo or a Dell

if nothing else reinstalling the OS on a Dell is about as easy as it gets.
they are SFAIK the only company who's system recovery CD's actually WORK
(I've NEVER had to "re-authenticate" a Dell computer or enter a CoA number in one)

I don' want a "new" notebook, I don't want Vista or Win7
I DO want a notebook that will either work with the 320gb
drive I've already got (I'll clone the OS to a 160Gb drive
and ebay this rotting cow with 120gb available to it's new owner)

What would be REALLY nice is a notebook that'll accept a 320gb SATA drive



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[AllanD]

Well after much searching around I finally found THIS:

http://support.gateway.com/s/Mobile/SHARED/2900728su4.shtml

It's kinda fitting that my Notebook is 13'th down the 80gb column, but they even get that wrong, as I've proven that my notbook supports a bit over 120gb.
(twice what it was originally equipped with)

I searched multiple times on the gateway site and the links on their site directed
me everywhere but to it...

I wouldn't be bothered if they has simply answered my SIMPLE question of
how much HDD with my laptop would support... instead they give me the run around, avoid answering my question and then basically deny they know anything about it...
Yet this PAGE is on their site.

I'm not irritated by the fact that I can't use all of the installed drive (it ignores the surplus capacity quite nicely), but I'm irritated how long it took to get the answer I needed.

But I've definatly learned not to buy a Gateway or Acer computer if you ever expect to need worthwhile support

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[smokey]

Good find.
Navigating anywhere on the Gateway site is worse than having a root canal with out drugs. Their drivers are always missing files or are buggy.

[AllanD]

the funny thing was I was doing a google search and I delineated my search string with quotes in a way I hadn't before (to filter out some of the garbage) and stumbled across it as the third hit...

This after a full two WEEKS of searching the web looking for anyone that had installed a drive >120gb in an M350WVN


As for "buggy"? The instructions are missing or WRONG on important steps for navigating to where you MUST be on the computer you are installing them on to install them, or have non-sensical requirements... MISSING or actually BLANK (in one case) ReadMe files, etc...

as for CS from other makers?
with my last computer IT decided it was an HP from it's Bios, and when I finished installing the OS (win2k) It told me what drivers it needed for operation and asked permission to download and install them from HPsupport.com...

I only needed to call with it misidentified an aftermarket IDE controller card and installed an older version of the driver and I couldn't immediatly identify the problem.

the CS rep was most helpful even after I admitted that the computer
was a "curbside aquisition". (I actually found it in the trunk of a junked car!)

And people complain about HP customer service?

My call to Dell was for aquiring and installing a patch for an older version
of Roxio EzCD creator that they sold bundled with many of their computers.
and even though I began the call with stating that the computer I was
working on wasn't even a dell and that I needed a piece of software the
guy on the line spend ~45minutes helping me resolve the issue by UPLOADING
he software patches to the Dell site and giving me the links.

Way to Go DELL! (that CS rep sold me on their support)

The other thing I love about an old Dell is that all you need to verify/authenticate WinXP
on a Dell is ANY Dell XP-Reinstall disc. It self authenticates!

And No it doesn't have to be used on the same S/N computer...
though it might not properly hunt down certain needed drivers
(restoring a Dell GS280SFF last week with an old (SP2) disc
THE first thing the computer did without anyone touching it
was to TRY to go online to update the SP2 to SP3 which something inside the comuter told it it should be... unfortunatly the ethernet driver was wrong
so I had to dowload the correct driver from dell with my desktop
and "sneaker net" the driver on a flash drive to the GX280.

As soon as it had the driver and rebooted it "phoned home" to MS authenticated itself
(that took something line 3/10seconds) and started downloading SP3.

Bing-bang-boom operating stable system.

That GX280 has been sitting across the room turned on 24-7 with automatic
updates turned on and it keeps chugging along:)

In my world if the computer with a newly installed copy of XP-sp2 seamlessly
updates iself to sp3 and then allows downloading of Win Media Player 11 it is never going to give you any issues with authentication.

I've ressurected several Dell computers and I've never had to call microsoft to get them authenticated... I did with this gateway notebook and the nightmare I went through with my sister-in-law's Compaq was epic....

After about the third CS rep that suggests BUYING a new copy of XP-Pro
for a computer that simply crashed it's boot drive I was about to head
for Redmond with a chainsaw... Except the people I as on the phone with
were more likely to be in Bangalore or Columbo.

what I'm going to do is this... as soon as I have $60 or more in my PayPal account
(somebody buy a set of locking hubs please?) I'm going to buy another new WD 120Gb ATA-6 laptop drive from Newegg, clone the OS from the 320 to the 120 and put the 120 in the gateway notebook.

THEN go shopping for a used DELL notebook that's already got (or was originally sold)
with atleast a 160gb drive and put my 320 in that...

If when that used notebook arrives it is SATA and won't take the 320gb drive I can either get a PATA>USB housing and use the 320 as a USB drive or install it (with an ATA-6>IDE adapter I've already got) in my desktop

I REALLY won't be upset with a Notebook computer (ANY DELL with an Intel Core2 cpu)
if it takes a SATA drive because ANY laptop that takes a SATA 2.5" drive will accept any volume drive.. and at that point I'd buy a 640 or 750 and never worry about space again... (I can store every DVD I own and be left wondering what to do with the other 600Gb)

The "stumbling blocks" that prevent using larger drives in computers (bios related) happen at ~30gb and again at ~130gb.

while it's possible I might get a bios that'll allow a 320gb drive to be fully recognized in this notebook I know it isn't the one available from Gateway....

Mabey Pheonix has something for me, but I ain't holding my breath.



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[smokey]

I like the Dell notebook and desktop computers.
I own a computer repair shop and am certified for Dell,HP, and compaq computers.
Dell has the best recovery setup on it's computers. Hp/compaq and be a nightmare if ANY type of hardware changes have been made.
The HP/compaq require a tattoo if either a motherboard or hard drive is changed before it will allow windows to install from the recovery set. Then even after tattooing the hardware sometimes it still will not accept the software. Many times everything has to be unplugged from the printer to the router for it to install.
Hp's tech support is good most of the time.HP's printer support is top notch for their laser printers.
Dells advanced techs are pretty well versed on all their systems.Some of the low level techs at Dell try to be helpful but sometimes need more training.
Toshiba,Sony and IBM support isn't to bad 99% of the time.
Gateway and emachine tech support leaves me with a headache Every time I have ever had to call them for a part or something with warranty work.
I highly doubt you will find a BIOS that will support the larger drive from gateway or anywhere for that matter.

[AllanD]

well, what I'm going to do next is get a pair of 120gb ATA-6 drives from Newegg, clone my OS from the 320gb drive to BOTH of them and get get one of those Toshiba or IBM drive bay "adapters" that allow you to install a 2.5" IDE laptop drive in place of the optical drive.

then I'll have TWIN 120's with the OS on both of them... self backup

For a bunch cheaper than I can buy a PCMCIA slot SSD. (about $95 for
a 16GB SSD drive in that form)

Optical drive? I'll get a CD-RW/DVD-RW external USB drive, because
frankly I don't believe the USB interface slows an optical drive enough
to notice (a HDD? another matter)

It's not like I'm using my laptop as a portable DVD player
(it's too power hungry and runs too hot for that)

That'll get me where I want to be with this notebook

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[Jaymz9350]

if you use the xp install cd to prepare the drive,
it ends up as 128 meg.
prepare it in disk management in xp-
(control panel\administrative tools\computer management\
disk management) delete all partitions then create a new
one. after it formats, set it as active.
then do your install. or, if you are happy with your current one,
copy it first, then copy it back.
FYI that ended with SP2.

[rboyer]

I ran into this problem with the 250gb version of your drive (largest they made at the time for PATA). I think it ended up being a problem with an older version of XP only recognizing up to 128gb even if it's NTFS. The easy way around it is to download WD's Data Lifeguard for windows and just partition your unallocated space into a seperate drive letter. If you want it all as one partition you'd have to upgrade to the latest service pack (I think it was solved right away in SP1 or 1a) and then make the partition larger.

[kimcrwbr1]

Cant you just boot the xp cdrom and format the unpartitioned space to ntfs then reboot to windows.

[kimcrwbr1]

set the bios to boot from cdrom first

[AllanD]

Nothing anyone has suggested is going to do spit.

It's a DUAL problem.

First the Bios I have is not capable of dealing with 48bit LBA support.
NOR is the ONE newer bios that is available for this notebook, that kills me on firmware.

But to add another stake through the heart of this issue,
my notebook has the Intel 855 Montara chipset and any chipset 860
or earlier isn't capable of supporting 48bit LBA.
(OR so I'm told by BOTH WD and Intel, and yes, I asked.)

48bit LBA is utterly necissary for any HDD larger than 128Gig.
and my hardware and firmware aren't...

So I'll find a more productive use for the 320gb drive
and spend $55 on a 120gb drive (or $110 on two of them
and another $25 on a drive bay adapter)

Eventually I MAY get a newer laptop that can use the 320gb and if so fantastic...

But frankly I'd really rather get a slightly newer laptop that takes SATA drives
because on laptops with SATA drives the only limitation is physical size of the drives.

For the same money I spent on this PATA 320gb drive I could have gotten a nearly identical WD Laptop drive in sata for the same money.. the difference? it would have been a 640gb drive.

"standard" notebook drives are 2.5" wide and 9.5mm thick.
So far the largest drive made in this form factor is a 750gb.

there is a 1tb notebook drive on the market, Western Digital makes it,
but it's a new physical size, still 2.5" wide but 12.5mm thick.

that and a 16gb SSD that fits in the PCMCIA slot (As an ultimate backup for the OS...)

Oh what "fun" it is catching up on nearly a decade slide behind in technology.

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[kimcrwbr1]

I dont understand if the bios dont recognize the HD how did you install windows and if you dont try booting from the CDROM and formatting the unpartitioned space you wont know. It will only take about 10 minutes to find out and cant hurt anything.

[kimcrwbr1]

Or you can probably split it up in several different partitions also tandy for backing up the system and files.

[BRUTUS_T_HOG]

looks like you haven't resolved this. i do know that windows xp doesn't allow more then 120GB per drive.. i had the same problem with my 250gb drive.. the problem is all in windows xp and i still have only 120gb cause i never bothered to try.. im thinking the only way for you to do this is to boot with your windows disk into the recovery console.. you'll have to look up the exact code to enter(fdisk? i really don't remember), but it will take you to a hard drive formatting/partitioning utility that you can try to partition the remaining space into a useable format.

you might be able to use that stupid utility that you set windows up with.

but it also looks like your hardware can't even support it

[rboyer]

The whole thing with the bios being able to support 48 bit lba is crap, if it's reading the drive correctly then the problem is in the operating system. So says the pentium 133 file server sitting in my home with a 250gb SATA drive that's being ran on an IDE channel with a SATA to PATA adapter dongle. That of course doesn't run windows.

[AllanD]

I dont understand if the bios dont recognize the HD how did you install windows and if you dont try booting from the CDROM and formatting the unpartitioned space you wont know. It will only take about 10 minutes to find out and cant hurt anything.

The issue is that the laptop only "Sees what it CAN see"

And with a 20gb system partition it only shows the "unallocated space"
as 108Gb, the laptop will format ALL the unallocated space it can see perfectly.

the additional "missing" 190gb CAN be formatted externally (by connecting the HDD to my desktop computer) but if I do so then the total system volume is a large binary number that the Bios and chipset can't deal with
and at bootup the computer stops, says "Unadressable volume" and goes no further. it WILL NOT BOOT if the total volume exceeds the 128(binary)/137Gb(decimal) hard drive capacity limit.


Or you can probably split it up in several different partitions also tandy for backing up the system and files.

Tried that (Doesn't work) the limit is on the TOTAL volume of ALL partitions on the drive.



looks like you haven't resolved this. i do know that windows xp doesn't allow more then 120GB per drive.. i had the same problem with my 250gb drive.. the problem is all in windows xp and i still have only 120gb cause i never bothered to try.. im thinking the only way for you to do this is to boot with your windows disk into the recovery console.. you'll have to look up the exact code to enter(fdisk? i really don't remember), but it will take you to a hard drive formatting/partitioning utility that you can try to partition the remaining space into a useable format.

you might be able to use that stupid utility that you set windows up with.

but it also looks like your hardware can't even support it

Actually the limit was with the original issue of XP.
SP1 resolved the issue with a newer system32 ATAPI driver.

I'm running a clean, new, authenticated install of SP3.

That's right Intel says the 855 chipset I have cannot support a drive larger than 128/137, so the bios is irrelevant other than as an intellectual issue..


The whole thing with the bios being able to support 48 bit lba is crap, if it's reading the drive correctly then the problem is in the operating system. So says the pentium 133 file server sitting in my home with a 250gb SATA drive that's being ran on an IDE channel with a SATA to PATA adapter dongle. That of course doesn't run windows.

What you are saying doesn't apply.

Because YOUR bios doesn't see a logical drive, it sees an external mass storage controller which has it's OWN bios.

That was how we got around the limitation on my mother's computer,
a P4 2.4 on MoBo with an intel 860 chipset.

Her Motherboard and bios don't support the 320gb drive she's running
but they DO support the Promise IDE controller card which has it's
OWN bios and chipset that DO manage drives that large.

And I'm predicting that you are going to permanantly
Retire that old Pentium 133 you are using for a file server
(and give it a decent burrial)
Because I've got a Dell GX280-SFF sitting here with your name on it...

it's a Second generation "Prescott" P4 2.8Ghz, 1024mb Cache and
800MHz FSB in a mini desktop case.

Hell bring your 250GB HDD down with you and it'll leave here with
an authenticated copy of Win XP-sp3 on it.

the only rub is that you'll need to supply your own USB mouse and Keyboard
(the little bugger has no PS 2 jacks on it, but it's got a total of EIGHT
(Six back two front)USB 2.0's on it.

I owe you and this'll leave you owing me:)

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