About manual brakes vs pwr

John Smith · Apr 3, 2010

I am doing a little research on using a manual brake setup on my B2...

I have a small vacuum leak in the pwr brake booster...and i may want to install a manual brake master cylinder in the process of fixing the leak.

Has anyone seen or worked on a manual brake system form a RBV?...

I really would like to do this...but not being sure anything else is different other than the master cyl itself..i am gathering info for any other parts i may need...

any info would be duly appreciated...thanx

adsm08 · Apr 3, 2010

Just get a new booster. There is a 1 in a million fail rate and it's an easy parts swap.

John Smith · Apr 3, 2010

So i would guess

adsm08 said:
Just get a new booster. There is a 1 in a million fail rate and it's an easy parts swap.

your input would be "not bother"....

I was actually hoping for a little more information on the topic of manual brakes..

but i got your vote on the subject anyway...thank you..

adsm08 · Apr 3, 2010

The problem is that manual brakes need more force to be put into it by you, which means you need a longer brake pedal lever to get the same effect. Those pedals are hard to find, a new booster is gonna be easy because even a used one has a high chance of being good, and will cost much less than the pedal arm and a new MC.

John Smith · Apr 3, 2010

this i understand

adsm08 said:
The problem is that manual brakes need more force to be put into it by you, which means you need a longer brake pedal lever to get the same effect. Those pedals are hard to find, a new booster is gonna be easy because even a used one has a high chance of being good, and will cost much less than the pedal arm and a new MC.

i was curious if the pedal assembly was different...thanks 4 that...of course you might imagine there is more to this than cost for me...but i appreciate that real input..

I'm curious if you"ve ever driven one?..I'm curious as to how they function.
I assume if they sold that way new it must be acceptable...especially for full grown 200# + adult male mostly...

I do NOT like the way pwr brakes perform under tow...or with dead engine....of course i guess we could use an electric vacuum pump like our windshield wipers used to have...

I guess I've now given away my gray hair...

Tony Raine · Apr 3, 2010

i have wondered about manual brakes myself. my mom's 64 stang has manual drums at all 4 corners, and stops just fine. of course its not hot-rodded, or driven over 55 mph.

John Smith · Apr 3, 2010

neat info man...

Tony Raine said:
i have wondered about manual brakes myself. my mom's 64 stang has manual drums at all 4 corners, and stops just fine. of course its not hot-rodded, or driven over 55 mph.

I remember my 66 EB had drum brakes..and manual brakes..did just fine...

i remembered that when disks came out they had said that pwr brakes made the pedal pressure easier to manage..but i would've thought that by the late 80's they would've gotten that balanced out since they sell a new manual MC...for a late 80's 4wd ranger...I think I'm going to have to really check into that "bigger pedal" claim...the Ford people could let a guy know what years that was an issue...
and drum brakes..DO get a little better mileage marginally but true...

trail B2 · Apr 4, 2010

I see there 2 different part no's but the same size bore.So I believe the difference is the shaft coming out to meet the pedal.I happen to have an 88 ford ranger shop manual it diagrams the manual brake system and if there is a difference it's unapparent.When you talk about the old cars that stopped good with manual brakes they were drum brakes witch are self actuating and don't need as much pressure to work well.I have gray hair too whats left of it that's why when I worked on my brakes I put the double vacuum unit in from the early 90s and it stops real easy even with bigger tires.I think what your doing will work but your going to be surprised how hard you have to push on that pedal.

John Smith · Apr 4, 2010

thnaks 4 the info

trail B2 said:
I see there 2 different part no's but the same size bore.So I believe the difference is the shaft coming out to meet the pedal.I happen to have an 88 ford ranger shop manual it diagrams the manual brake system and if there is a difference it's unapparent.When you talk about the old cars that stopped good with manual brakes they were drum brakes witch are self actuating and don't need as much pressure to work well.I have gray hair too whats left of it that's why when I worked on my brakes I put the double vacuum unit in from the early 90s and it stops real easy even with bigger tires.I think what your doing will work but your going to be surprised how hard you have to push on that pedal.

good info man i appreciate it...I wonder if they compensated the mc for stopping the front disks..somehow...and i understand about stopping ....my one b2 will only have 235's on it though mostly use it for a grocery year round grocery getter...

I found a listing for the manual cylinder and it does have a longer shaft it looked like......

does the mc mount directly to the cowl thru the same holes that the vac can uses?....

in other words..remove the vac can and mount the mc?...I hope so...

thanks again....

I've ordered a new Helms man for my 88B2 ..I'm interested how much detail they go into....

adsm08 · Apr 4, 2010

I think you can mount it right to the fire wall. I think the compensation for the need for more pressure was a longer pedal arm, that allows you to put more pressure on the MC with the same pedal force.

If you can find a manual brake RBV and grab the pedal bracket assy from it I would do that too. At least hop under the dash of both trucks and measure that pedal arm, see if there is a difference.

ifergusson · Apr 7, 2010

I used to have an 88 Ranger with factory manual brakes and it stopped just fine and I don't remember any excessive pedal effort.I switched my 86 Mustang over to manual brakes years ago and you definitely want the manual brake pedal as the distance between the pivot point and the master cylinder push rod pin is different as you require more leverage.

Shran · Apr 7, 2010

As long as you swap the pedals, push rod and master cylinder from a manual brake truck it will work fine. I prefer the power brakes too but to each his own. I have had a few cars and a fullsize truck with manual brakes and never had problems stopping.

I don't know what failure rate these get, but I think it is way more than 1 in a million. The reason is that the fuel pressure regulators on 2.9s fail very often and leak fuel into the brake booster and ruin it. I have had to replace a few just on my own vehicles. But if your FPR is good the booster itself should last a long time.

About manual brakes vs pwr

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