my steering set-up

[Crashtest84]

Ok so over the last few days, I have kinda made a modified Superrunner style steering. Don't know how well its goin to work at this point but I tried to make the outer links as long as possible. In thought if your drag link was level with your axle beam and the same length, then the rate of change on your toe in or out should never change just the camber...

Getting the passenger side the same length was pretty simple since it is shorter then the drivers side. I wasn't really able to get the drivers side link out to the axle pivot but its close and alot longer then stock. Anyway here are some pics of the fab work everything is still tack welded at this point and haven't really been able to test it yet! Im sure there is going to be some changes but the best thing is as of right now I only have about $120 in it.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3611.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3610.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3609.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3608.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3607.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3606.jpg

[jglimpse]

Wow that looks good. Id like to know how it works

[Hardwareman]

Me too! Looks great! If it works as good as it looks you should'nt have any problems.

Maybe you could get the measurements dead nuts and start fabbing them up for sale. Like for my 2wd?.......lol




Allen

[rickcdewitt]

thats great.i've been thinking of building something just like that.where did you get the bushing assemblys for the idler arm?-from a fabrication vendor?

[Crashtest84]

thats great.i've been thinking of building something just like that.where did you get the bushing assemblys for the idler arm?-from a fabrication vendor?

Check out http://www.xtremecrawlers.com/catalog/ends-suspension-parts-suspension-joints-parts-c-45_74.html

That is a local guy, but he does alot of internet sales coolest guy in the world very helpful to. I got eveything but the tubing from him. I will post up all the things I used to build this later after I get it all done

[rickcdewitt]

sweet,keep us posted.by the way is that like an 8 inch system or something?those drop brackets look tall.let me know when you go solid axle i'll get up the cash for your steering:icon_cheers:

[metalmacguyver]

nice work. first pic i have seen of a super runner set up. i like it.

[4x4junkie]

That's actually more like a crossover (or "swingset") style steering.

Nice work, although I would do something to eliminate the adjusting sleeve with having that bend in the tierod. Right where it necks down into the sleeve is going to be a weak spot.


BTW, it's probably better that you didn't go longer on the driverside tierod as well (better steering symmetry).
Because the actual beam pivot axis runs at about a 45° angle from the pivot bushing to the radius arm bushing, the axis is not going to be directly in front of the beam pivots anyway. Trying to match the tierod lengths only to the beam lengths would create more bumpsteer on one side than the other.

[Crashtest84]

Well here are the pics of everything welded up and off the truck... update after driving the truck performance of the kit is great, although the poly bushing idler arm isn't going to stay on the truck I am working on making a diff arm to mount the center link on that will mount on the outside of the frame rail and only swing one way as the way I have the idler arm now it allows a lil movement " twisting of the arm " and causes a drag in the steering but I did get to take the truck wheelin yesterday and everything worked great the truck even seems to steer better then with the stock set-up

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3612.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3613.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3614.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3615.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/coffin81/100_3616.jpg

[metalmacguyver]

Hey man, how did this work out for you?

[4x4junkie]

Well, You've got the right idea and you've done a good job so far but, Your left tie rod is not long enough! It needs to pivot at the same point as the TTB. You've gone that far, why not do it right?
The Radius arm has nothing to do with the steering, only the suspension. Trying to figure in the radius arm will just screw you up. I just don't understand why some of you think that way. The tie rods need to be EXACTLY the same length as the TTBs they feed and you WILL have ZERO bumpsteer. The size of the knuckle doesn't change with the curvature of the radius arm!! As long as the tie rod pivot is fixed and in line with the TTB pivot you will have zero bumpsteer. It has been proven and over ten years in testing!

That directed at me?

I "think" that way because it is fact.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/sfr4x4/ttbsymetry.jpg


BOTH tierods actually need to be longER than the beams themselves to be on the beam's pivot axis (more so on the p-side than the d-side).

It should be working well enough if they are set at the same height as his beam pivots though.

[Ranger44]

Very Informative! I'll keep this in the back of my head. Maybe a project to consider once I have the means to do it.

I always hate not having a garage and/or welder at hand.....

[fx2prerunner]

something like this has been on my mind for a long time, its just a long way down on a really long list of things to do, hope it works out good, let us know the results, the only other thing I have to say is they are some really nice welds

[04 EDGE]

good thing you don't live in michigan

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.710c Bumpers; height limitations; lift blocks; prohibited modifications; construction of section; applicability; definitions.
Sec. 710c.
Para(4) All steering components shall be geometrically arranged to function as original equipment manufacture. Welded pitman arms, drag links, and tie rods are prohibited.


of course this is for on road vehicles.

[mjonesjr]

good thing you don't live in michigan

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.710c Bumpers; height limitations; lift blocks; prohibited modifications; construction of section; applicability; definitions.
Sec. 710c.
Para(4) All steering components shall be geometrically arranged to function as original equipment manufacture. Welded pitman arms, drag links, and tie rods are prohibited.


of course this is for on road vehicles.
So even the Superlift Superunner setup is illegal?

[04 EDGE]

are the threaded tie rod ends welded to the tubes?

not flaming maurice. just looking at the safety side of things.

[4x4junkie]

Superlift's tierods are not welded.

[Loanranger]

Stock Suzuki Samurai's tierods are welded from the factory.

[mjonesjr]

are the threaded tie rod ends welded to the tubes?

not flaming maurice. just looking at the safety side of things.
I read it differently. The Superlift's are not welded.

[sasdranger]

thats a pretty tricky setup!

what some of you TTB guys do to get the steering linkage all working properly amazes me!

[bobbywalter]

good thing you don't live in michigan

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.710c Bumpers; height limitations; lift blocks; prohibited modifications; construction of section; applicability; definitions.
Sec. 710c.
Para(4) All steering components shall be geometrically arranged to function as original equipment manufacture. Welded pitman arms, drag links, and tie rods are prohibited.


of course this is for on road vehicles.

while this is true and a driving factor behind my use of oem pieces in earlier designs...its only true for oem sold for profit vehicles. if you custom title your rig and get thru the form 54 hoops your fine as long as you have sound product. full hydro assembled with iso spec parts wont bat an eye from my former inspector, whom also raced in the desert in his youth.


the superrunner steering works similar enough to oem and is ok as well.

just like having a v8 ranger. thats federally illegal too. but its also home built and easy to title. and yes insurance cost more too.


remember...its still america, theres reasons for lawyers that come after you and lawyers that protect you. do your shit right and paper it accordingly and issues will be nill.

[dusto2]

looking good you will have to let me know how it holds up i want to make one myself

[4x4junkie]

Lol. I just don't get why is this is so hard for some to figure out.

Each red line on that diagram is the true pivoting axis for for each side of the suspension (and note that they are still symmetrical in spite of one beam being shorter).
Why anyone would think having the tierod pivot anywhere else but directly from that red line for minimum bumpsteer is beyond me :icon_confused:

[rickcdewitt]

if you think about it mutant's tie rods would be just to either side of the red line if they were the length of the beam since the tie rod stops short of going out to the center of the balljoint.stil light years better than the inverted Y

[4x4junkie]

If the tierods are only matched to the beam lengths, one side (passenger) would be further away from the red axis line than the other. Not only would there be some bumpsteer, it would behave asymmetrically too.

I do agree that it's still much better than the Y-setup (virtually anything is).

[bobbywalter]

:icon_rofl:













this is great.



what is bump steer?


if its imperceptable to the driver on landing at 70 mph after a 60 foot blast and has no effect on handling taking corners at a tt event then it is zero bump steer.

if you can leave on the trans brake in 4x4 and run a low 13 sec 1/4 without the truck wanting to rollover thats 0 bump steer....


if the truck stays in its lane driving with one finger through the hiways and biways of detroit in the springtime pothole season and graveltrain rutted secondary roads.....your fawkin winning the ttb fight dude.


as to cad....its awesome and gets shit done...in the same beath **** cad. cad gets you close...then you build it and figure out what you input wrong and then make it right anyway.


perfect on paper and what works great and percepatbly perfect are two entirely seperate things in alot of cases.

[bobbywalter]

i agree there s measurable what is known as bump steer, but turning a corner with full suspension cycle in 4x4... tires spinning hard.. with full control is no bump steer conditions for me...this as compared to stock-vs-superrunner-vs-what mutant is running...verse various abortions i have tried.


compared and tested.

i never had it all doing it with oem type parts, but i can get it pretty good.

[CopyKat]

A little tip to ya to get 0 bumpsteer through full cycle of the suspension you need to have the tierods on the blue line.

Seat of the pants and what is precieved as 0 bump steer is not "ZERO BUMPSTEER".

My truck is managable with the steering setup I have. I don't go around saying it has zero bumpsteer. I know it has some seen here.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p198/Villanmotorsports/BIV%20Bronco/posershots/P1000077.jpg
So at full bump and full rebound if your tires are still pointing straight ahead then hey I read you wrong. But I can bet your not. And by the looks of your picture 7" of full travel will make bumpsteer feel alot less.

[Evan]

I love how some people think bumpsteer ONLY happens on a TTB.

[bobbywalter]

this was normal...and shitty, but i had enough power tothrow it around and compensate.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/867/4661/2167330053_large.jpg?-



this setup keeps the tires flat with the terrain and toe change minimal...cornering with throttle was so much fun on of ramps..:D


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/867/4661/2167330158_large.jpg?264916-017


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/867/4661/2167330159_large.jpg?264916-017

problem was left quirks and with the big tires i was always tearing links in half..:dunno: but the tire stayed sweet...:icon_hornsup:

[bobbywalter]

my current setup does not have hardly any toe changehttp://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/216000-216999/216733_176.jpg?044617-290

:thefinger: 33's wear pretty flat still:icon_rofl:



well i am off to se what busts with these 42's and the snow banks...

[bobbywalter]

well it didnt take long to fawk up something in the front drivetrain:icon_twisted:

:icon_rofl:

[Jim Oaks]

- Thread cleaned up. The garbage was moved to the recycle bin. -

[Bent Bolt]

this was normal...and shitty, but i had enough power tothrow it around and compensate.


this setup keeps the tires flat with the terrain and toe change minimal...cornering with throttle was so much fun on of ramps..:D




http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/867/4661/2167330159_large.jpg?264916-017

problem was left quirks and with the big tires i was always tearing links in half..:dunno: but the tire stayed sweet...:icon_hornsup:

Kinda hard to see but did you move the left tie rod attachment towards the right and make the left tie rod longer ?? If so, thats exactly what I had in mind for my truck.

[bobbywalter]

yes.

basically they are equal length to the beams, or in this case past the beams.


i cant find any pics of some of the crossover stuff, joel may have some..


best thing to do is just make a swing set system with threaded chromo tubeand heims using shackles...if you do that with high steer d44 or d60 knuckles and arms it would be great for 5 in plus lift trail rigs.