Raptor or Ranger

[DavidNJ]

Now that would be a modified Ranger with a Dixon Bros. or Camburg suspension and other mods.

The Raptor is more refined inside, but larger. The modified Ranger would have a more sophisticated suspension, stiffer chassis, etc. To modify the Raptor would require new lower control arms, different shocks and bumps, and other mods probably including a bed cage. I'm still not sure what an 'internal bypass' shock is.

Price is probably fairly similar if you finish the Ranger like a new truck, otherwise a bit less. The Raptor, if stock or near stock, would depreciate less...a lot less.

Which would you prefer?

[JoshT]

Sorry but if you're talking them both being about the same price the raptor would be best. You are modifying the Ranger to be what the Raptor is from the factory. I also have a hard time believing that the Ranger suspension would be more sophisticated than the Ford designed Raptor suspension. You have to work out all of the bugs in the modified Ranger to get everything to act right together, with the Raptor Ford has already done this. Gas Mileage would probably be about the same, if not slightly better in the Raptor. Last, but certainly not least, the raptor carries the factory warranty. If something breaks during the warranty period they have to fix it. If something breaks on the modified Ranger you have to fix it yourself most likely have to replace expensive components out of pocket.

[Chance]

If ford came out with a factory prerunner ranger with long travel and more horsepower, then we might have a discussion.

But we don't.

And this is not ford truck news.

Should be in general or something.

[DavidNJ]

Ford's Raptor suspension is bush league by pre-runner standards. They say 11.4" of travel in front...but how mush of that is bump? On the Ranger there would be 14" of travel, maybe 10" of bump. It looks like the Raptor compromised bump to use a stock like fender.

That front shock on the Raptor is really a single 2" with the bypass build on the internal sides. A twin tube. The Ranger would have a 2.5" monotube coil over and a 2.5" monotube bypass, front and rear. The bump stops would be pneumatic. There would be rebound strap. Also, the lower arm on the Ranger would be steel. It remains to be seen how the aluminum arm works in heavy use. If it cracks, you won't be welding it in the field. Also, the Ford nearly certainly is using ball joints. The modified Ranger would have monoballs.

The rear both used arched leaf springs, although you could do a 3-link on the Ranger. To clear the bed they mounted the shock below the axle making the mount a potential rock casualty. The Ranger would have it mounted above the axle.

The Raptor has an open front diff, auto locking or permanently engaged hubs, a limited slip rear. The Ranger could air locks or e-locks (with a steering wheel mounted control). The hubs would be manual.

BTW, what is the rocker protection of the Raptor?

[JoshT]

Sounds like you have already decided which is better so why ask?

[souldoubt88]

I plan to have both eventually.






I also plan to marry a movie star and have a Ford GT, and retire young.....we'll see how that all pans out....

[DavidNJ]

I was just arguing the other view...a little like comparing a 1000hp Supra to a new Z06 Corvette.

[Frank The Tank]

I think a Raptor Ranger............
is an idea that needs to be thoroughly explored.

I really like both.
but the "cheap" feel of a ranger is tough to shake off, it's just a hard fact of loving RBV's.

Frank

and kick it's ass at what? rally racing, towing, sled pulling, drag racing?

[DavidNJ]

one of the magazine took a Raptor off road. Some brackets, bent wheels, but also it looks like the skid plate took a pounding. If you are doing real off-road, a new factory truck isn't always best. I imagine some will use it as a base. But out of the box, it is like a ZR1 Corvette: has a lot of go, but mainly for show.

[85_Ranger4x4]

No doubt you could build a truck that would out wheel it, but the Raptor isn't an off road only truck.

It would take more $$ than the Raptor to build a truck that would out wheel it and out drive it... and probably resources that the average shmo wouldn't have.

It is that balance that is hard to get, the Raptor is a factory built off road race truck that is also polite on the street.

[Chance]

See, what I don't get is why people try to compare a stock vehicle to a modified one, what's the point? You can mod the stock one too.

[DavidNJ]

Factory build cars have lots of compromises. In return they offer refinement (usually) and warranties.

Often, when used hard...say taking a Z06 to track days, the car goes under stress making it much more difficult to maintain than a custom setup. Judging from the damage to the Raptors given to the press, that would appear to be the case here.

Interesting will be if Fox starts shipping single coilover bypass shocks.

If you were modifing it, would there be a significant advantage in starting with a Raptor rather than a regular F150?

[Chance]

Often, when used hard...say taking a Z06 to track days, the car goes under stress making it much more difficult to maintain than a custom setup. Judging from the damage to the Raptors given to the press, that would appear to be the case here.

Clarify this statement please :icon_confused:

Do you mean using a vehicle to the fullest extent makes it harder to change oil?

-OR-

Do you mean that a custom set up takes more abuse than a stock one?

I'm assuming the second one but I still had to sit and think about it so I figured I'd ask.

The raptor is a stock truck basically. It's for people who want to pull their toys out to the dunes and have a truck that could play around there (better than a lower model) as well.

It's not a truck that you could drive off the lot and enter in baja with.

Well you could, but...

[DavidNJ]

The second...however....it means the Raptor may be a bit light for an off-road truck. The Jeep Rubicon, the Toyota FJ Cruiser and the Land Rover Defender 90 are factory trucks with serious off-road aspirations out of the box. They are more rock crawler than pre-runner. All have compromises, but offer significant value as a base for modification.

Does the Raptor offer an advantage over an F-150 for modification? Which parts would you keep?

On the Rubicon, Dana 44s, locker diffs, and 4.3 transfer case offer a real enhancement for a long arms build.

[li7in6]

As of right now the Raptor is an F-150 with suspension mods.

When the 6.2 liter raptor comes out it might be more notable.

Fact of the matter is, If i wanted to build a full size high speed desert truck (no, its not a prerunner just becasue its meant to tackle the desert at speed) I would start with a late model Silverado with a 6.0, plenty of reasonably priced long travel kids out there to make it much more capable than a raptor for cheaper and plenty of performance aftermarket. You don't buy a $40k+ truck to go beat the hell out of in the desert unless you have more money than sense.

The raptor certainly is more capable than a regular full size, but you're not going to be bombing whoops too fast with just 11" of travel, thats not even comparable to a mid travel suspension kit. I can get 14+ inches of front end travel with nothing more than a coilover swap, aftermarket UCA and titan LCA's on my frontier. Titans can get that travel with just coilovers and UCA's.

If you're going to go comparing trucks on a cost basis, you have to use either showroom new or equally old/depreciated vehicles, in addition you should use similar vehicles (i.e. similar class/size/options/etc. In which case you could buy an '10 F-150 for FX-4 for $30k. For $10k or less im pretty sure you could buy 4 corners worth of coilovers, tires, rims, and build it up to be more capable than the raptor. But then its not factory.

[DavidNJ]

You can get 14" on a titan with coilovers and UCAs? I know the UCA is needed at droop, especially with 2.5" shocks. However, I didn't think you could get that much bump travel.

Dixon Bros. says 14" on the 4wd Silverado with long arms, Camburg says 10" on the Titan with the UCA.

Which parts where you using?

[Toms01PSD]

The Raptor has an open front diff, auto locking or permanently engaged hubs, a limited slip rear. The Ranger could air locks or e-locks (with a steering wheel mounted control). The hubs would be manual.

Where are you getting all this false information dude? Limited slip rear?
The Ford website says it has an Electronic Locking Differential. http://www.fordvehicles.com/f150raptor/

If you're going to bash the truck, atleast make yourself credible and do some research.

[DavidNJ]

You are correct...electronic locking rear diff, and open front. And it has stability control and 35x12.5/17 tires.

The question is it a good enough factory performance boost to qualify a legit off road truck, or is the gap of things to modify too great.

On the Z06, which is probably the closest equivalent, GM came moderately close. Other than safety equipment, which is arguably also a Raptor issue if you do what is pictured in the Ford online videos, Z06 owners change the seats, tires, sometimes the wheels, and modify the brakes. Different pads, a typical track day change, but also the rotors (an insanely heavy lump of iron, with the weight in the hub not the rotor, and with the vanes point the wrong way on one side). Overall, not that much.

Not sure what a Raptor owner will change. Maybe the question is what is limiting front travel to 11 inches and how much of that is bump travel. There are many people with deep pockets who will by a Raptor, so it is pretty certain the mods for more travel will come quickly.

[Chance]

You're getting way too hung up over the factory pre-runner thing.

It's a package just like the fx4, it's designed to do a lil better that the rest of the trucks that roll out the factory. It's not a pre-runner.

[Toms01PSD]

You're treating the Raptor as if it was a Ford Fiesta and the Ranger as if it were a Ferrari Enzo. For every part you describe for the Raptor you multiply it's awesomeness for the Ranger. It's like building a 4 cylinder against a V8. You can't spend the same amount of money and get the same or better results. By the way, the Titan and Silverado are already running around on the streets, so they are going to have aftermarket parts already. So how can you bash the Raptor already?

[85_Ranger4x4]

It is a improved factory truck, not a full on desert racing truck. For a factory truck it is supposed to be pretty good, and really doesn't cost much over a regular F-150.

How well a desert racing truck performs isn't very relavant in most parts of the country. My local dealership has one on order, no desert anywhere around here. With gravel roads almost every mile on the mile, how well it can transverse rough terrein for long periods of time around here isn't that big of a deal for anyone that buys it, you can only go so far before you hit a fence, road or a ditch... which will ruin anyones day.

[DavidNJ]

Ford's advertising is definitely billing it as a pre-runner. And it appears to be a nice truck, with among the most sophisticated shocks in a OEM truck.

However, is that enough? After originally being nearly a draw, the Raptor is gain a slight edge in the pole: 7-4-5. The 6.2L may make the difference, however it will probably find its way into all F150s and Expeditions. Its size and power level is were the competition is these days.

I wasn't knocking the Raptor, however the Ranger is a very popular pre-runner platform with lots aftermarket parts. And this is a Ranger forum...

[Toms01PSD]

This is true. I love my Ranger. However, i'm not a Ranger "fanboy". There are plenty far superior vehicles out there than my truck.

[li7in6]

To get around 14" of travel on the nissans you have to clearance the coil bucket and spindles as even with aftermarket UCA's the buckets still limit your droop. If you're going for more up travel it involves cutting the buckets and mounting hoops. The simple bolt ons will only give you 9-10" of travel becasue even with UCA's you're still running into the coil bucket. For up travel afaik the only thing limiting it is the amount of fender clearance you have and how much shock/coil you can stuff in. PRG can set up a kit for 16-17" of 2wd travel and 14-15" of 4wd on titans/frontiers but obviously you're looking at something more involved than a bolt up, and at least a front diff swap on the frontier.

There are Silverado kits that will give you 16-19" of front end travel. But if we're talking 4wd it'll be less. JD Fab offers a 4wd kit that gives you 15" of travel on a chevy full size.

[Frank The Tank]

If i had that much money......... honestly I don't think I'd buy a raptor or modify a ranger.

Frank

[ranger_mclaren]

I was just arguing the other view...a little like comparing a 1000hp Supra to a new Z06 Corvette.

Supra, hands down even stock I'D NEVER OWN A VETTE.

If i had the money to blow i'd buy a raptor for a DD and weekend toy. I would build a truggie out of the ranger stickly buisness built.