351W stroker + ZF into 85 ranger

[defrag010]

I'm putting together a semi-low budget little project. A guy at work is leaving for the military, and is leaving me an old '85 2wd ranger single cab/long bed/5spd that's seen better days. It has a rebuilt 2.8 that comes with it, but I won't be using it. Pretty much all I'm going to do is rip out the interior (except the dash), bolt two of my race seats in, flat black it, and make it into a fun little beater toy.

Now, where my drivetrain plan comes in to play, I haven't been able to find much by searching. ZF is too short of a string to search on this forum, so I don't know what all kind of answers I'll get concerning that.

The engine is a 440c.i. 351W based stroker. stock 400M crank that's been stroked (w/o welding) to 4.25" with SBC rod journal diameter, and all the other necessary mods to get it to work in a 351w block. aftermarket 4-bolt main caps (boss 302 style), and a girdle hold everything together. It's got 6.125" eagle h-beams that are hanging 4.060" JE dished pistons. The shortblock is almost together, so all I have to worry about finding are top end parts. I'll probably just get some pro-comp alum SB ford heads, and a pro-products "typhoon" 351W EFI intake.

The truck is a manual, and I want to keep it that way because it will be fun, yet the truck won't be competitive in racing. The motor will make over 500 ft/lbs of torque with good heads, so I have been trying to think of a tranny that will be able to hold up to it. A T5 or a m5od (or whatever the mazda 5 speed that came in F150's is) will have no chance in hell, and I came across the 351W ZF.

Does anyone have a 351W-based motor and a ZF in their ranger? Will there be any fitment issues like having to re-do the floorpan?

Lastly, what about EFI? A big standalone would be too much for this semi-low budget project, so I've been trying to research what all is available for tuning on the stock EEC. Are there any self-tuning software, or self-chip burners to where I can tune the stock EEC by myself? If I was able to flash the EEC, would a 351w truck EFI wiring/computer system be able to run this motor decently?

[86XLT]

as far as fabrication goes without a body lift you will need a cowl induction hood...almost positive atleast...i have been told on this site that a 5.8 is too tall.

Josh

[projectnitemare]

You need a body lift to clear a ZF unless you feel like redoing the floor and firewall. It's pretty tall and large. If you want to go fast the ZF is the wrong choice; it's a truck transmission. Really 500ft-lbs is out of the range of a ZF. Depending on the two models you can get for a SBF they are rated at either 420 or 470 ft-lbs. I'm making over those numbers as well so they will hold 500 but you are over the rating. I C6 would be the way to go. I'm in the works of a 460 for in the truck and I won't be using a BBF ZF in it, built C6 all the way. You will shift faster, handle the power better and break less stuff from shock loads. I don't think you will cheaply find a way to get it to work efficiently. You will be replacing everything; why not just start with aftermarket parts? You'll need to change the stock 7.5 rear axle as well.

Matt

[ZMan]

a toploader 4-spd or a T56 ($$) will probably be much more suitable for the application.

[defrag010]

Will you have to cut the tranny tunnel to use a C6 if you have no body lift?

How much body lift do you have, projectnightmare?

[ZMan]

Will you have to cut the tranny tunnel to use a C6 if you have no body lift?

How much body lift do you have, projectnightmare?

ya you will need to do some modification to the tranny tunnel.

[red85]

Lastly, what about EFI? A big standalone would be too much for this semi-low budget project, so I've been trying to research what all is available for tuning on the stock EEC. Are there any self-tuning software, or self-chip burners to where I can tune the stock EEC by myself? If I was able to flash the EEC, would a 351w truck EFI wiring/computer system be able to run this motor decently?

You have options galore for this. I'm building a W based combo and looking at doing a GM style TBI setup with a GM PCM and sensors etc. This can be done with jy parts for under $500. You could also use a Ford based setup for about the same $$. I have a ton of this stuff hanging around and if the GM stuff doesn't work out I plan to use it. The only thing I plan to change is the upper plenum and throttle body as it will not clear my hood very easily. I plan on using an upper plenum from a car instead of the truck one that I already have.

[projectnitemare]

I have a 3in body lift and I still had to cut a decent hole in the trans tunnel and had to beat the firewall some. It is pretty close still. When I first mashed the gas I put a big dent in the floor board from the bellhousing hitting. The ZF is much larger than a C6. With a C6 and no body lift you will have to do a little work around the seam area at the bottom of the firewall but nothing like you would need with a ZF. If you can find an old top loader that would be the manual that you would want. If you can't find one of them the C6 would be the next best. Granted it would need a rebuild like all the older autos but they are a dime a dozen if you look around.

Matt

[defrag010]

what kind of toploader should I be looking for if I was wanting to stay manual?

[projectnitemare]

Actually I don't know of it by any other name than a Ford toploader. Ask any guy that knows anything about Fords; he will know what you are talking about. From what I know it replaced the BW T-10, so that was in the mid 60s. You can find it in a good many Fords but the super rare ones will be the large input shaft versions found in some 427s and up. The smaller input can be found behind anything from a 200ci to the 390. Both are super strong. If you find someone who know what they have you will pay for it. I know a guy who has 3 of them collecting dust and won't sell them.

Matt

[ZMan]

I take it you can put both the small and large behind any block?

heres a big input close ratio toploader on ebay..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-TOPLOADER-4-SPEED-352-390-406-428-427-NASCAR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQihZ016QQi temZ260180521505QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

heres a wide ratio..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-TOPLOADER-4-SPEED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34208QQihZ015QQit emZ250186130370QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Mac]

The guy to talk to about any top-loader is
http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/
The top-loader shifter position did differ on application (Mustang/Fairlane) so watch out for that. The later ones with over-drive were a much weaker case.
Matt, the C-6 also came with the large input shaft, 1 3/8" if you didn't know already.
Dave

[projectnitemare]

That's why I say C6 for any big number engine, for an auto it has a pretty big input and an automatic is always easier on the drivetrain. From what I remember with the top loaders all the close ratio were for the 427, 428 and 429s. The wide ratio will be the smaller input for the 390 and below. I'm pretty sure you can put any of them behind any of the big or small blocks with the correct bell housing. I'll have to check with the neighbor on that one. I drove a fox body with a 347 and top loader before, what a sweet ride.

Matt

Hey dave, I see you have a 427R. I saw one drive by the other day and fell in love with it. What is the 427R package, I can't find any specs on it.



Matt

[Mac]

Matt,
You very correct - again. The early Ford stuff was a lot more interchangable than it is today. I got my big input C-6 from a low mileage BIG Merc crusier.
The 427R is a 4.6 motor with a roots blower on it, lowered, special struts and sway bars, special seats, gauges and a really short throw shifter. The 427 is the rated hp, torque is over 390 ft-lbs. Fun to drive.
Dave

[HoleshotKFX400]

If you wanna save modding the trans tunnel, just go with a c4. They build c4's to handle 1000+hp and there a lot smaller and lighter. If you want over drive go with a AOD, they build those to handle lots of power too. You can pick up a c4 for lets say 200??? bucks or so, and get a TCI rebuild kit that comes with the new bands and valve body mods, and your set. Toploader would work too but there like 7 bills on ebay

[projectnitemare]

I killed a moderately built C4 twice. I got tired of dumping parts into it. You will have a huge load of cash invested in a 1000hp C4 and still a good bit in one to handle 500 or so ft-lbs. The C6 is a little larger but it will fit. Ebay is the last place where I would look for something like a toploader. They are kind rare so you will pay top dollar for sure. I refuse to ever use Ebay parts on a build ever again unless they are new and in the original box; I got tired of buying trash. If you check the traders guide, find some friends and their dads if they are car guys, check some junkyards and you will be able to find one. You should be able to find it for under $700. Heck the SBF ZF 5-speed is rather rare as well.

Mac you have a sweet car...trade you straight up for my truck?


Matt

[defrag010]

Thanks for the advice. I've been trying to avoid going the automatic route, I would prefer keeping the truck a 5 speed for the fun factor. Again, the truck won't ever go down a 1/4 mile strip or anything, I am just going for a cheap beater truck that I can have fun driving every day and when the time comes, stick it in gear and hand fast cars their asses on the hiway.

If I'm going to have to cut the tranny tunnel for both a c6 or a ZF, I'll just stick with the ZF. For the cost and effort of tracking down an old toploader, I can easily find a ZF and hack away!

[Twizzler09]

If you want to keep a manual, theres another version of the AOD called the 4STB.... its just the AOD with a manual valve body essentially. Both the AOD and 4STB should be able to handle the torque/hp numbers you stated.

my .02

[projectnitemare]

You won't need to hack the firewall very much at all for a C6 but it is kinda tight. A ZF you will be seriously getting into the firewall and much of the floor. The C6 is big in the bellhousing area, the ZF is big everywhere. Being you have a 2wd there are really much better choices than the ZF. I'm not trying to brush you away from it, but there are just much better options if you want it to be find to drive. The ZF shifts like a school bus. A T5, toploader or any other good car manual will make a a world of difference. Personally if I didn't like the superdeep 1st for a good crawl ratio I would have went with a C6.

Matt

[moremotor]

i got a 351w in my truck with a couple small mods, you basicly need to have a 3 inch body lift if you want to fit the c6 trani and that goes with a lot of other things, cant fit the motor fan you need electric. its a pain but its all worth it.

[v-8power]

I have a 2WD ranger with a 351W with a c-6 and i dont have a Body lift. I'll be running my manual fan as well. It's all in how you place your engine.